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Verin should have figured it out Datakim Send a noteboard - 10/12/2009 03:03:14 AM

I actually didn't remember the Aes Sedai with Rand had discovered it at all. Could you give me the quotes or chapter where we learned that?


I seem to recall that it was in a letter sent by one of the sisters to the head of the red ajah. Tsutama I think.


One of your problems here is that you are presupposing the existence of information that we have been clearly told doesn't exist based solely on your personal incredulity. The information contained withing the White Tower is not dependent on your ability to believe it or not.


We have neither been told or not told whether this information exists or not. Just because some random rebels don't know about it does not mean it is not written down somewhere. My assumption was that it would be based on the lifespan of the tower and the number of stilled sisters.

I cannot deny that it IS an assumption but it seemed reasonable enough to me that it would be discovered and recorded considering that it IS rather obvious.

All it would take is for one average brown to be accidentally stilled, to leave the tower, to discover afterwards that she can lie and send a letter to her former ajah explaining that bit of new knowledge. At which point the knowledge would be written down and stored for good. There must have been lots of sisters like that in the millennia the tower has been around.


Back to Verin, this means that if she were looking into the consequences of Stilling, then it is quite reasonable to believe that she would have discovered that it removes the Oaths. However, this wasn't what she was searching for. Instead, she sought a way to remove the Oaths. There is no more reason to look at Stilling for the solution than immersion in cold water or dancing naked on the full moon. There is less, in fact, because its consequences are more extreme.


I don't know if it is that unlikely. For example, we know from Moiraines PoV in New Spring that taking the oaths feels like it presses on your skin. This is shown again when the BA hunters release and retake the oaths. As a BA, Verin had the oaths released and then took them anew. It seems reasonable enough for me for her to have realised at that point that the tightening of skin/ageless look is a result of the oaths. Just because that is not common knowledge does not mean that Verin would not have realised it since she took the oaths twice.

Let us say she did, then let us say that somewhere along her life she met a stilled sister and saw that the ageless face was gone. I figure she must have met atleast one sometime in her long life. She probably stilled sisters herself even. Not a big leap from there to realise that if the ageless face was gone, maybe the oaths were too. A bit of research into the subject at the tower libraries and PRESTO!

Now this is just one possible example of how Verin could have discovered it. It could be that she was simply smart enough to realise it on her own without any outside assistance. It is a well known fact that the oath rod works only on channelers so its not a big leap from there for Verin to wonder what would happen if she stopped being a channeler by being stilled for instance. A bit of research in the libraries and there we go. Most people don't have any reason to think about the oaths overly much after they are taken. But for Verin, the oath rod and oaths would pretty much have been the most important thing to research.

70 years is a long time. A very long time. Longer than the total lifespan of most people. And all this time, Verin would have known that the success of all her work and efforts would depend on being able to break free of the BA oath. Is it really rational that given all that time, the brilliant brown Verin would not he discovered this. I don't think so.
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I finished tGS last night... and really had to come back to you all. - 09/12/2009 02:11:05 AM 1498 Views
You bring up some good points - 09/12/2009 03:20:37 AM 957 Views
What if Verin really WAS Black? - 09/12/2009 03:32:07 PM 778 Views
Pretty much agree with you. - 09/12/2009 03:21:08 AM 739 Views
Hey, long time no see. Glad you're back! *NM* - 09/12/2009 03:28:50 AM 394 Views
Good to see you too, F-T. *NM* - 17/12/2009 09:58:26 PM 274 Views
Silly Verin! She did not need to die. - 09/12/2009 03:53:23 AM 845 Views
Re: Silly Verin! She did not need to die. - 09/12/2009 06:11:02 AM 735 Views
And does she know that Stilling breaks the Oaths? *NM* - 09/12/2009 06:16:54 AM 327 Views
She should. Some of the Aes Sedai who swore to Rand had been Stilled and then Restored by Flinn. - 09/12/2009 03:18:10 PM 711 Views
Then, wouldn't the BA/Shadow just kill her off? I think it'd be kind of obvious what she did. *NM* - 09/12/2009 03:23:05 PM 476 Views
I think that's beyond the BA's capabilities. - 09/12/2009 03:48:03 PM 593 Views
Doesn't mean they experimented with it. - 09/12/2009 08:48:23 PM 655 Views
Rebels had no reason to research a way to break the oaths. Verin did. - 10/12/2009 02:00:21 AM 691 Views
You're going at it upside-down. - 10/12/2009 02:33:41 AM 645 Views
Verin should have figured it out - 10/12/2009 03:03:14 AM 641 Views
Why? - 10/12/2009 04:15:45 AM 637 Views
I was just rereading that section yesterday.... - 10/12/2009 10:52:23 AM 822 Views
It all seems intuitively obvious to me! - 10/12/2009 07:58:46 PM 782 Views
Will you please look at your argument? - 10/12/2009 09:40:42 PM 712 Views
Re: It all seems intuitively obvious to me! - 11/12/2009 07:38:17 AM 703 Views
The damn Oath Rod! - 12/12/2009 01:32:47 AM 849 Views
Just having motivation is not enough - 11/12/2009 03:52:40 PM 727 Views
Agreed, you also need a working brain. Where did Verin's go? - 12/12/2009 12:54:17 AM 542 Views
I don't think those would work - 09/12/2009 07:03:38 AM 700 Views
She should and could have found a better way. - 09/12/2009 07:41:28 AM 701 Views
I agree. - 09/12/2009 03:16:27 PM 561 Views
Re: She should and could have found a better way. - 10/12/2009 12:13:40 AM 657 Views
Re: She should and could have found a better way. - 10/12/2009 02:30:14 AM 636 Views
Re: Silly Verin! She did not need to die. - 09/12/2009 08:44:31 PM 731 Views
There is also this small problem of Tower Law - 10/12/2009 08:24:55 AM 536 Views
I always thought Masema was an irritating distraction and was glad he was killed quickly. - 09/12/2009 03:53:44 AM 701 Views
Yes, Masema was a bore. - 09/12/2009 03:13:40 PM 703 Views
Agreed. *NM* - 09/12/2009 09:25:02 PM 367 Views
- 09/12/2009 04:44:10 AM 741 Views
Re: - 09/12/2009 08:13:24 PM 731 Views
Hey Mark. - 17/12/2009 10:00:58 PM 665 Views
Great to see you again! - 09/12/2009 05:01:01 AM 857 Views
Yep, and Sheriam ended up losing a finger or two in the process. - 09/12/2009 03:49:45 PM 670 Views
Why do you think we'll never see Mesaana closure? *NM* - 09/12/2009 06:07:08 AM 460 Views
Re: Why do you think we'll never see Mesaana closure? - 09/12/2009 06:13:22 AM 610 Views
It's great to see you around again! - 09/12/2009 07:06:45 AM 705 Views
:'( - 09/12/2009 11:29:03 PM 646 Views
Good to see you too. - 17/12/2009 10:01:57 PM 633 Views
Re: Good to see you too. - 19/12/2009 06:12:11 AM 611 Views
Hee... gotta love zoos. - 19/12/2009 06:18:35 AM 575 Views
Mine added up to many vet bills this week. - 19/12/2009 07:22:40 AM 577 Views
Eeeep! Bills are not good! - 19/12/2009 07:24:36 AM 584 Views
- 20/12/2009 06:46:38 AM 651 Views
LMAO! - 20/12/2009 08:25:02 AM 482 Views
- 21/12/2009 07:41:18 AM 582 Views

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