I'll Try to Rephrase Then (Including the Spoiler. )
The Name With No Man Send a noteboard - 09/12/2009 12:49:55 PM
RJ's use of the diverse character parallels isn't meant to make this story evoke those older tales, rather, it is using the circular time of the Wheel as an explanation for their origins.
They're all the same stories, only changed by the passing of time and turned into myth and legend, or the same core from a different turning of the Wheel.
They're all the same stories, only changed by the passing of time and turned into myth and legend, or the same core from a different turning of the Wheel.
Outside of the work itself, the stories have to have an origin at some level for Jordan to use them, because he obviously didn't just make up centuries old stories we all know so well. He got them from somewhere, if only subconsciously, and the first extant occurrence still known today is the origin in that respect, and in that respect it is those original stories of our collective heritage Jordan tries to evoke in TWoT.
However, Jordan may well be arguing that true time is cyclic (though I don't believe this MUST be his view) and if that's the case all bets are off. He could just mean to speak of the archetypes of our collective heritage, and if he does so in service of cyclic time there is no more "original" story in the real world than in Randland, because they're all looped and we can't point to a particular version of pervasive repeated mythos because they're all one. If we take this to extremes we could even say that, given indefinite time and indefinite space, Randland COULD BE Earth in 10,000 years, or 10 million, or some distant terrestrial planet in 10 billion. If anything's possible, if an infinite amount of time means EVERYTHING'S CERTAIN, then sooner or later TWoT will play out as a historical series of events, some place, some time, because anything you can imagine or can't does, sooner or later.
That seems going too far to me though, and I'm not entirely convinced Jordan's use of cyclic time is anything more than a conceit to serve a story that has other themes he does affirm. Ishy's oft stated goal is to break the Wheel of Time, and he verifies in TGS what I've always believed: His goal, and the DO's, is universal non-being, void, as the result of breaking the Wheel. But in TGS we see something else for the first time: Rand also wants to break the Wheel in a very real sense, to escape both his supposed destiny and that of the world not by avoidance but by facing and destroying the DO permanently. I think it's a fool's errand, but I thought the same of the Cleansing, and it would certainly be very interesting to see unfold. Can the world exist without the Creator's antithesis, if only in a confined state? How deep is the source of conflict, would the push/pull of the One Power's halves be enough, or is the DO required to prevent a static world as absent of life as the void the he would create if free? Perhaps a world without the DO is so untenable, so incompatible with the Creator's goals, that in killing the DO Rand would be assaulting the Wheel itself, and thus replace the DO, be imprisoned indefinitely alone longing for oblivion more than at any point since he accepted his prophesied fate to die in torment saving and breaking the world at the same time.
Again, it seems as if there are a lot of possibilities to consider, and the potential for a very deep and serious discussion, but I know that's only an illusion since, after all, there are no great deep themes in TWoT. In fact, never mind. If anyone needs me I'll be contemplating my navel.
The Wheel of Time's Great Themes, Edited to Include Those I See.
06/12/2009 05:58:08 AM
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So, What Are They?
06/12/2009 09:36:56 AM
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Putting names into a blender isn't the same as weaving together great themes.
06/12/2009 03:17:05 PM
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No, Indeed It Is Not.
06/12/2009 04:37:23 PM
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Oh my God...trying to use agape in context of this series is overkill to the nth degree.
07/12/2009 04:12:56 AM
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Jordan May Not Always Execute It Well, But I Believe It's There (Now We Face Details in TGS.)
07/12/2009 04:28:05 PM
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Read what Larry's Short History of Fantasy says about Jordan.
07/12/2009 05:56:03 PM
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I Have to Agree With Fionwe's View the Characters Are Deeper.
08/12/2009 04:19:07 PM
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I'm done with this thread.
08/12/2009 06:21:41 PM
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Fair Enough.
08/12/2009 07:02:04 PM
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If it were just about Jordan I could ignore this last ridiculous comment.
09/12/2009 03:56:47 PM
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Louis La'mour said about himself he wasn't an author so much as a storyteller...
06/12/2009 03:41:09 PM
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Ha. Funny, I feel the same way, and come to the opposite conclusion.
08/12/2009 08:42:41 AM
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I've never been able to finish the Lord of the Rings Trilogy. Too boring, with fairy tale characters
09/12/2009 12:28:26 PM
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That Is a Great Shame.
09/12/2009 01:27:44 PM
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I enjoyed the Silmarrilion though...the part about the Valar and their comparative strengths...
09/12/2009 01:39:47 PM
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That's.. too bad, I guess?
09/12/2009 08:40:49 PM
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Seems to me you've inverted it.
08/12/2009 08:48:07 AM
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One Way or the Other Their WoT Origin Must Be the Stories We Know (Slight Spoiler Alert.)
08/12/2009 03:18:30 PM
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I have no idea what you are trying to say, sorry.
08/12/2009 08:12:35 PM
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I'll Try to Rephrase Then (Including the Spoiler. )
09/12/2009 12:49:55 PM
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I don't really see any "great" themes per se, just an enjoyable story, like the pulp serials.
07/12/2009 03:32:43 PM
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I Think He Set Out to Write Epic Fantasy, Yes.
08/12/2009 04:25:36 PM
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