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sarcasm is sarcasm. In both instances their is technically a lie. Onarishma Send a noteboard - 07/12/2009 11:28:02 PM
KoD
As if the World Were Fog


“Remember,” Perrin told Seonid, “the biggest danger will be getting from the cistern to the fortress. You’ll have to use the guardwalk on the wall, and there might be Shaido in the town even at this hour.’’ Gralina had seemed unsure on that. Thunder boomed hollowly in the distance, then again. “Maybe you’ll have rain to hide you.”
“Thank you,” she said icily. Her moonshadowed face was a mask of Aes Sedai serenity, but her scent spiked with indignation. “I would not have known any of that if you had not told me.”


Especially since the majority of the information he's providing IS intuitive. And SINCE he said remember you can't prove that she didn't get the information from someone or somewhere else. So if could be sarcasm citing him as the source as well as citing him for questioning her memory.


Unless you think an AS couldn't figure out that the situation was dangerous or that the rain would hide her from sight? and you again can't prove that someone else did not tell her about the wall.

what you are refusing to accept is that intonation(and facial expression) is part of a words meaning. Cadsuane clearly intoned that. "hadn't" meant "had". The word clearly could no longer be understood as hadn't. No sentient being could misunderstand sarcasm and so she did not speak a word that was untrue.
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Cadsuane lies! darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 06:10:41 PM 2007 Views
Re: Cadsuane lies! joepo - 06/12/2009 06:18:39 PM 1215 Views
Sarcasm is one thing Ryan - 06/12/2009 06:43:12 PM 929 Views
I disagree darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 06:51:27 PM 886 Views
RJ has said they're allowed to be sarcastic TheCrownless - 06/12/2009 07:07:32 PM 853 Views
How does that jive with the Oaths? darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 07:13:21 PM 889 Views
Good point, but in that same book Tamra said that Gitara didn't say anything before dying *NM* Deadsy - 06/12/2009 07:53:31 PM 409 Views
Re: Good point, but in that same book Tamra said that Gitara didn't say anything before dying DomA - 06/12/2009 08:03:36 PM 943 Views
Yes, she did state it. Deadsy - 06/12/2009 08:57:47 PM 870 Views
Re: Yes, she did state it. DomA - 07/12/2009 01:39:07 AM 829 Views
Re: How does that jive with the Oaths? DomA - 06/12/2009 07:57:10 PM 790 Views
The Oaths focus on INTENT beetnemesis - 06/12/2009 10:01:27 PM 841 Views
None of what you describe is an Oath ingrained into your bones. darius_sedai - 07/12/2009 01:52:49 AM 711 Views
It's ENTIRELY about self-rationalization Nameless Ashaman - 07/12/2009 03:59:00 AM 700 Views
^This. *NM* Nate - 07/12/2009 08:23:27 AM 389 Views
Because it isn't a lie DomA - 06/12/2009 07:44:29 PM 857 Views
I understand this, I'm not arguing that an AS should not be able to be sarcastic darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 08:08:15 PM 843 Views
Verin didn't say it sarcastically. Darth_Katie - 06/12/2009 08:11:31 PM 695 Views
Really? I never would have known that without you darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 08:39:56 PM 773 Views
Re: I understand this, I'm not arguing that an AS should not be able to be sarcastic DomA - 06/12/2009 08:35:23 PM 874 Views
Quote for you darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 08:42:52 PM 812 Views
Re: Quote for you DomA - 07/12/2009 01:30:57 AM 730 Views
The sarcasm was for him repeating himself to her. The "remember" is the part she's refering to. Onarishma - 07/12/2009 10:15:06 AM 651 Views
That's why I think this example of sarcasm works as opposed to Cadsuane who makes a false statement darius_sedai - 07/12/2009 03:17:52 PM 706 Views
sarcasm is sarcasm. In both instances their is technically a lie. Onarishma - 07/12/2009 11:28:02 PM 668 Views
Not at all the case darius_sedai - 07/12/2009 11:58:42 PM 761 Views
Do you really believe he waited till the last minute to tell Seonid? Onarishma - 14/12/2009 01:32:37 PM 817 Views
That's the whole point of her being able to say what she did! darius_sedai - 14/12/2009 04:05:24 PM 613 Views
What about the Sheriam thing? Legolas - 07/12/2009 01:49:32 PM 695 Views
Re: What about the Sheriam thing? DomA - 07/12/2009 02:15:25 PM 659 Views
But surely an Aes Sedai can answer a question she hasn't fully heard yet. Legolas - 07/12/2009 03:06:34 PM 792 Views
I actually don't take it as proof. Nameless Ashaman - 07/12/2009 09:00:58 PM 693 Views
Yeah, I thought about that possibility too... Legolas - 07/12/2009 10:21:16 PM 913 Views
Sarcasm Sidious - 06/12/2009 07:14:47 PM 885 Views
It's obviously meant to be sarcasm, I just don't like darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 07:18:40 PM 681 Views
Here is what RJ said about it Etzel - 06/12/2009 07:41:18 PM 836 Views
Well I have to say I think RJ made the wrong call with this one *NM* darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 07:43:47 PM 366 Views
Like my momma used to say... Mat_Cauthon33 - 06/12/2009 11:27:22 PM 731 Views
Your momma is a wise woman. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 07/12/2009 03:14:27 PM 630 Views
Agreed. johnnymack - 07/12/2009 01:45:39 AM 639 Views
You can already drive a truck through the oaths. Does this one additional tiny gap really matter? Nameless Ashaman - 07/12/2009 04:07:16 AM 669 Views
Alys (Moiraine alias) *NM* BlackAdder - 07/12/2009 05:13:18 AM 978 Views
No, no it doesn't. johnnymack - 08/12/2009 03:31:11 PM 636 Views
Re: No, no it doesn't. Nameless Ashaman - 08/12/2009 04:41:42 PM 681 Views
what do you think a RL lie detector would tell in this case? redhand - 07/12/2009 12:27:07 PM 637 Views
in RL you would get warned by the investigator to cooperate AgentOrange - 07/12/2009 01:04:33 PM 687 Views
But how would the machine reading indicate? redhand - 07/12/2009 07:04:22 PM 660 Views
Usually you're s'possed to answer with a yes or no. It's easy to tell when you're evasive AgentOrange - 09/12/2009 10:46:58 PM 687 Views
Where's the problem? Shadowkiller - 09/12/2009 04:18:40 PM 597 Views
It's in the way the Oath is worded darius_sedai - 09/12/2009 05:14:39 PM 642 Views
Re: It's in the way the Oath is worded Shadowkiller - 09/12/2009 05:36:59 PM 665 Views
See the Cadsuane quote, but I'll give you another one darius_sedai - 09/12/2009 06:15:32 PM 866 Views
PS You misread my original quote darius_sedai - 09/12/2009 11:00:56 PM 601 Views
You're so right. My fault. *NM* Shadowkiller - 10/12/2009 12:57:29 AM 573 Views
No worries! It a discussion forum, we're supposed to discuss darius_sedai - 10/12/2009 12:58:39 AM 669 Views
Re: PS You misread my original quote taura-tierno - 28/12/2009 10:04:51 PM 780 Views
Lies, untruths, sarcasm, and meaning Shadowkiller - 09/12/2009 07:46:25 PM 729 Views
We are starting understand each other darius_sedai - 09/12/2009 10:09:41 PM 684 Views
Re: We are starting understand each other Shadowkiller - 10/12/2009 01:03:08 AM 629 Views
Completely agree darius_sedai - 10/12/2009 01:23:36 AM 687 Views
Why do you think she *had* noticed the Aiel? *NM* Lord Haart - 14/12/2009 02:02:24 PM 295 Views
because she arrived with Rand and dozens of Maidens, darius_sedai - 15/12/2009 01:02:43 AM 615 Views
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