I think the effort required is in missing, not seeing, the deeper meaning.


That seems to be a crucial difference between Mani and Zoroaster, but it also seems another semantic one based on the principle the positive power never involves itself so that man is free to choose (which you may recall I actually think has some validity, but does it sound like any speculative fiction you've read lately? ) The point is made vaguely enough, however, that, since from your comments below it's clear you've visited Wikipedia, you might need to "clean up" their article on Manicheanism, which says,

"Theology

"Manichaean theology was dualistic in regards to good and evil. A key belief in Manichaeism is that there is no omnipotent good power[citation needed]. This addresses a theoretical part of the problem of evil by denying the infinite perfection of God and postulating two opposite powers. The human person is seen as a battleground for these powers: the good part is the soul, which is composed of light, and the bad part is the body, composed of dark earth. The soul defines the person and is incorruptible, but it is under the domination of a foreign power, which addressed the practical part of the problem of evil. "

I don't have their missing citation handy, but if you do I'm sure they'd be very grateful. I'd consult the sources you reference myself for it, and do appreciate your sharing them, but you may also recall I'm not a great fan of Gnosticism, neo or otherwise.

No, it doesn't, but there's more to it, isn't there? It seems more like the elemental associations aren't restricted to fire and water, but that would be difficult to do anyway since Jordan wants to include the contemporary view of pagan elemental forces (hence the present of "spirit" usually recognized as a fifth element in such circles today, but more properly classed with fire in the Ancient world.) It may not be obsessive, but the principle of the DO as the "Father of Lies" receives much attention: Many of Rand's PoVs in the first third of the series are concerned with whether anything Baalzamon tells him is credible, and even in relatively minor incidents like the Shadow Prophecies found in Fal Dara the question is openly asked how far they can be trusted given their source. The debate continues even now how much, if any, Ishamael altered the Prophecies of the Dragon in Seanchan to serve the Shadow's ends. Meanwhile the one thing of which we're sure is what Lan tells us: Death comes for everyone sooner or later unless you serve the DO, and only a fool would makes that choice. Ishy confirms just how foolish that is in his TGS conversation with Rand: The DO has lied to everyone, including the Forsaken, who should've recognized the lie for what it was. That's one of those long standing mysteries you wanted resolved, and it caught many by surprise, but it only confirmed what I already knew, not because I'm so smart, but because I can recognize the theme when it's right under my nose.

Mmm, it seems you may have more clean up to do at Wikipedia:

"Etymology

"Hebrew: ??????; Arabic: ??????; Akkadian: L?l?tu, are female or male nisba adjectives from the proto-Semitic root L-Y-L meaning 'Night,' literally translating to nocturnal 'female night being/demon', although cuneiform inscriptions where L?l?t and L?l?tu refers to disease-bearing wind spirits exist.[2][3]

"Another possibility is association not with 'night' but with 'wind,' thus identifying the Akkadian Lil-itu as a loan from the Sumerian lil, 'air',[2] — specifically from NIN.LIL 'lady air,' goddess of the South wind (and wife of Enlil) —and itud, 'moon.'"

My impression is the etymology isn't as simple or clear as you make it sound, and that even where it can be translated with an element of "wind" it has the element "moon" appended (which brings us back to your mention of Selene, perhaps an example not as randomly chosen as it seemed. ) Unless we're talking about a day moon, we're still talking about the night.

A case at least as strong as that for Baal Zephon can be made that Baalzamon is a reference to Amon Baal, a completely separate deity. Given the latters greater prominence in the ancient world that's the view I favor

That may be the only mention in the Pentateuch, but you know the cultural relevance. Indeed, I'm reluctant to assign a specific baal to Baalzamon precisely because there were so many; in a purely etymological sense David and Saul were "baals" they just weren't deities. If I have to pick one, it's Amon Baal, but as pagan deities they give me (and Jordan) the luxury of not having to do so, because all were in opposed by JHWHs followers.

Let ME repeat: Your argument is far from with me alone here:

"Lilith's epithet was "the beautiful maiden," She was described as having no milk in her breasts and were unable to bear any children.[5][11] Babylonian texts depict Lilith as the prostitute of the goddess Ishtar. Similarly, older Sumerian accounts assert that Lilitu is called the handmaiden of Inanna or "hand of Inanna." The Sumerian texts state that "Inanna has sent the beautiful, unmarried, and seductive prostitute Lilitu out into the fields and streets in order to lead men astray." That is why Lilitu is called the "hand of Inanna."[12][13]

Note the citations: It seems your argument is properly with Siegmund Hurwitz in "Lilith--the First Eve" and one Stephen Langdon.

Indeed, but its origins, at least in the West, lie in the mystery religions that culminated in Gnosticism. It doesn't "equate" with Gnositicism anymore than Mithras, but the links are strong and well documented.


Um, "inspired by"/="comparable with. "

Maybe I'm just projecting hopefulness on my part, but I really do think Jordan better than that, that he's made Rand better than that. Perhaps he only recovers his will to live and fight because of the remote possibility that some day, in the vast temporal and physical expanses of the world, his reborn soul might encounter the reborn soul of a woman he's never met and of whom he only has flashes of another mans memory, and this, rather than the very real life he's leading with Elayne, Min and Aviendha, restores his hope, despite the fact the odds are slim that it'll ever happen, and even slimmer that either one let alone both will recognize the other if it does.

It seems more likely to me, however, that was just the first step to recovering his humanity, empathy and the seeds of genuine agape. I understand that you want to see it as something far more shallow, I'm just concerned you may want it a bit too much.