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Alys (Moiraine alias) *NM* BlackAdder Send a noteboard - 07/12/2009 05:13:18 AM
This really is a massive gap in the Oath. It's not really used in the books that way but it could be. A Sister could lie freely as long as she thought she was being sarcastic. How the person she is talking to takes it is secondary.


I mean, c'mon... here's a typical excange between a normal person and an AS (I believe there are at least two exchanges almost exactly like this in the series):

Q: "What is your name?"
A: "You may call me Alyce."

Not technically a lie, since the AS is not saying her name is Alyce, but the intent is clearly a lie.

The oaths are next to worthless. Especially since everyone in the Westlands seems to be aware that AS do this so no one ever believes them anyway.
This message last edited by BlackAdder on 07/12/2009 at 05:13:27 AM
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Cadsuane lies! darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 06:10:41 PM 2023 Views
Re: Cadsuane lies! joepo - 06/12/2009 06:18:39 PM 1227 Views
Sarcasm is one thing Ryan - 06/12/2009 06:43:12 PM 949 Views
I disagree darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 06:51:27 PM 905 Views
RJ has said they're allowed to be sarcastic TheCrownless - 06/12/2009 07:07:32 PM 866 Views
How does that jive with the Oaths? darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 07:13:21 PM 905 Views
Good point, but in that same book Tamra said that Gitara didn't say anything before dying *NM* Deadsy - 06/12/2009 07:53:31 PM 415 Views
Re: Good point, but in that same book Tamra said that Gitara didn't say anything before dying DomA - 06/12/2009 08:03:36 PM 960 Views
Yes, she did state it. Deadsy - 06/12/2009 08:57:47 PM 883 Views
Re: Yes, she did state it. DomA - 07/12/2009 01:39:07 AM 847 Views
Re: How does that jive with the Oaths? DomA - 06/12/2009 07:57:10 PM 800 Views
The Oaths focus on INTENT beetnemesis - 06/12/2009 10:01:27 PM 860 Views
None of what you describe is an Oath ingrained into your bones. darius_sedai - 07/12/2009 01:52:49 AM 728 Views
It's ENTIRELY about self-rationalization Nameless Ashaman - 07/12/2009 03:59:00 AM 715 Views
^This. *NM* Nate - 07/12/2009 08:23:27 AM 397 Views
Because it isn't a lie DomA - 06/12/2009 07:44:29 PM 871 Views
I understand this, I'm not arguing that an AS should not be able to be sarcastic darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 08:08:15 PM 861 Views
Verin didn't say it sarcastically. Darth_Katie - 06/12/2009 08:11:31 PM 706 Views
Really? I never would have known that without you darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 08:39:56 PM 790 Views
Re: I understand this, I'm not arguing that an AS should not be able to be sarcastic DomA - 06/12/2009 08:35:23 PM 888 Views
Quote for you darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 08:42:52 PM 826 Views
Re: Quote for you DomA - 07/12/2009 01:30:57 AM 748 Views
The sarcasm was for him repeating himself to her. The "remember" is the part she's refering to. Onarishma - 07/12/2009 10:15:06 AM 666 Views
That's why I think this example of sarcasm works as opposed to Cadsuane who makes a false statement darius_sedai - 07/12/2009 03:17:52 PM 724 Views
sarcasm is sarcasm. In both instances their is technically a lie. Onarishma - 07/12/2009 11:28:02 PM 685 Views
Not at all the case darius_sedai - 07/12/2009 11:58:42 PM 773 Views
Do you really believe he waited till the last minute to tell Seonid? Onarishma - 14/12/2009 01:32:37 PM 833 Views
That's the whole point of her being able to say what she did! darius_sedai - 14/12/2009 04:05:24 PM 624 Views
What about the Sheriam thing? Legolas - 07/12/2009 01:49:32 PM 707 Views
Re: What about the Sheriam thing? DomA - 07/12/2009 02:15:25 PM 672 Views
But surely an Aes Sedai can answer a question she hasn't fully heard yet. Legolas - 07/12/2009 03:06:34 PM 809 Views
I actually don't take it as proof. Nameless Ashaman - 07/12/2009 09:00:58 PM 707 Views
Yeah, I thought about that possibility too... Legolas - 07/12/2009 10:21:16 PM 930 Views
Sarcasm Sidious - 06/12/2009 07:14:47 PM 903 Views
It's obviously meant to be sarcasm, I just don't like darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 07:18:40 PM 698 Views
Here is what RJ said about it Etzel - 06/12/2009 07:41:18 PM 848 Views
Well I have to say I think RJ made the wrong call with this one *NM* darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 07:43:47 PM 370 Views
Like my momma used to say... Mat_Cauthon33 - 06/12/2009 11:27:22 PM 744 Views
Your momma is a wise woman. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 07/12/2009 03:14:27 PM 643 Views
Agreed. johnnymack - 07/12/2009 01:45:39 AM 652 Views
You can already drive a truck through the oaths. Does this one additional tiny gap really matter? Nameless Ashaman - 07/12/2009 04:07:16 AM 681 Views
Alys (Moiraine alias) *NM* BlackAdder - 07/12/2009 05:13:18 AM 994 Views
No, no it doesn't. johnnymack - 08/12/2009 03:31:11 PM 654 Views
Re: No, no it doesn't. Nameless Ashaman - 08/12/2009 04:41:42 PM 697 Views
what do you think a RL lie detector would tell in this case? redhand - 07/12/2009 12:27:07 PM 649 Views
in RL you would get warned by the investigator to cooperate AgentOrange - 07/12/2009 01:04:33 PM 695 Views
But how would the machine reading indicate? redhand - 07/12/2009 07:04:22 PM 679 Views
Usually you're s'possed to answer with a yes or no. It's easy to tell when you're evasive AgentOrange - 09/12/2009 10:46:58 PM 706 Views
Where's the problem? Shadowkiller - 09/12/2009 04:18:40 PM 611 Views
It's in the way the Oath is worded darius_sedai - 09/12/2009 05:14:39 PM 666 Views
Re: It's in the way the Oath is worded Shadowkiller - 09/12/2009 05:36:59 PM 676 Views
See the Cadsuane quote, but I'll give you another one darius_sedai - 09/12/2009 06:15:32 PM 876 Views
PS You misread my original quote darius_sedai - 09/12/2009 11:00:56 PM 616 Views
You're so right. My fault. *NM* Shadowkiller - 10/12/2009 12:57:29 AM 586 Views
No worries! It a discussion forum, we're supposed to discuss darius_sedai - 10/12/2009 12:58:39 AM 681 Views
Re: PS You misread my original quote taura-tierno - 28/12/2009 10:04:51 PM 789 Views
Lies, untruths, sarcasm, and meaning Shadowkiller - 09/12/2009 07:46:25 PM 741 Views
We are starting understand each other darius_sedai - 09/12/2009 10:09:41 PM 705 Views
Re: We are starting understand each other Shadowkiller - 10/12/2009 01:03:08 AM 643 Views
Completely agree darius_sedai - 10/12/2009 01:23:36 AM 702 Views
Why do you think she *had* noticed the Aiel? *NM* Lord Haart - 14/12/2009 02:02:24 PM 300 Views
because she arrived with Rand and dozens of Maidens, darius_sedai - 15/12/2009 01:02:43 AM 627 Views
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