(I'm working this out as I type it, so bear with me. I think I'm right, though)
Basically, the Oaths aren't a kind of mystical binding- they're just a very specific form of applied Compulsion.
A stick of ivory doesn't know what a lie is. Weaves of Spirit can't tell if you're using the Power offensively or defensively.
But YOU can.
What the Oath Rod does, I'm fairly sure, is make it so you are unable to consciously violate any oath you make on it.
So "To speak no word that is not true" could LOGICALLY forbid sarcasm. It would also logically not do anything, because any word by itself is not a lie. As many have noted, it's not nearly as ironclad an oath as it sounds.
But what matters is what the Aes Sedai (or whoever swears the Oath) thinks. So, the swearer considers speaking a lie saying a "word that is not true." If there's any doubt, even subconsciously, the swearer would not be able to say the lie.
However, something like casual sarcasm, where the speaker knows she isn't intending to lie, and isn't attempting to be deceitful? No problem.
Another example: The "no Power as a weapon" rule. Except in the last defense of life of yourself, a sister, or your Warder.
What does "last defense" mean? Well, you could rationalize it to mean that an army charging at you from half a mile away makes it the "last defense." But wouldn't running away also be a defense? Shouldn't you not be able to make heads explode until you see the arrows coming at you?
Two equally valid interpretations, but the Oath Rod focuses on intent- if the Aes Sedai rationalizes "there's no way I could run away; they'd catch me and kill me" then that's that. The Oath Rod doesn't compute run speed and terrain conditions- the Aes Sedai does.
One last example- "make no weapon for a man to kill another man." What about women killing men, or men killing women? What about weapons for men to kill Shadowspawn? What about weapons without a purpose, that they'll just leave in a big pile over on that table and hope no one takes them, wink wink?
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The Aes Sedai have the intent of the Oaths drilled into them long before they ever lay hands on that ivory Rod- so it's very hard, I'd say almost impossible, for them to deviate from the accepted interpretations. Most people don't see using sarcasm as lying, especially when your listeners know you're being sarcastic. The First Oath means "I will not lie," so an Aes Sedai can't lie. But sarcasm? No problem.
Basically, the Oaths aren't a kind of mystical binding- they're just a very specific form of applied Compulsion.
A stick of ivory doesn't know what a lie is. Weaves of Spirit can't tell if you're using the Power offensively or defensively.
But YOU can.
What the Oath Rod does, I'm fairly sure, is make it so you are unable to consciously violate any oath you make on it.
So "To speak no word that is not true" could LOGICALLY forbid sarcasm. It would also logically not do anything, because any word by itself is not a lie. As many have noted, it's not nearly as ironclad an oath as it sounds.
But what matters is what the Aes Sedai (or whoever swears the Oath) thinks. So, the swearer considers speaking a lie saying a "word that is not true." If there's any doubt, even subconsciously, the swearer would not be able to say the lie.
However, something like casual sarcasm, where the speaker knows she isn't intending to lie, and isn't attempting to be deceitful? No problem.
Another example: The "no Power as a weapon" rule. Except in the last defense of life of yourself, a sister, or your Warder.
What does "last defense" mean? Well, you could rationalize it to mean that an army charging at you from half a mile away makes it the "last defense." But wouldn't running away also be a defense? Shouldn't you not be able to make heads explode until you see the arrows coming at you?
Two equally valid interpretations, but the Oath Rod focuses on intent- if the Aes Sedai rationalizes "there's no way I could run away; they'd catch me and kill me" then that's that. The Oath Rod doesn't compute run speed and terrain conditions- the Aes Sedai does.
One last example- "make no weapon for a man to kill another man." What about women killing men, or men killing women? What about weapons for men to kill Shadowspawn? What about weapons without a purpose, that they'll just leave in a big pile over on that table and hope no one takes them, wink wink?
--------
The Aes Sedai have the intent of the Oaths drilled into them long before they ever lay hands on that ivory Rod- so it's very hard, I'd say almost impossible, for them to deviate from the accepted interpretations. Most people don't see using sarcasm as lying, especially when your listeners know you're being sarcastic. The First Oath means "I will not lie," so an Aes Sedai can't lie. But sarcasm? No problem.
I amuse myself.
Cadsuane lies!
06/12/2009 06:10:41 PM
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Re: Cadsuane lies!
06/12/2009 06:18:39 PM
- 1226 Views
Sarcasm is one thing
06/12/2009 06:43:12 PM
- 948 Views
I disagree
06/12/2009 06:51:27 PM
- 904 Views
RJ has said they're allowed to be sarcastic
06/12/2009 07:07:32 PM
- 865 Views
How does that jive with the Oaths?
06/12/2009 07:13:21 PM
- 904 Views
Good point, but in that same book Tamra said that Gitara didn't say anything before dying *NM*
06/12/2009 07:53:31 PM
- 415 Views
Re: Good point, but in that same book Tamra said that Gitara didn't say anything before dying
06/12/2009 08:03:36 PM
- 959 Views
The Oaths focus on INTENT
06/12/2009 10:01:27 PM
- 860 Views
Because it isn't a lie
06/12/2009 07:44:29 PM
- 869 Views
I understand this, I'm not arguing that an AS should not be able to be sarcastic
06/12/2009 08:08:15 PM
- 860 Views
Re: I understand this, I'm not arguing that an AS should not be able to be sarcastic
06/12/2009 08:35:23 PM
- 887 Views
Quote for you
06/12/2009 08:42:52 PM
- 826 Views
The sarcasm was for him repeating himself to her. The "remember" is the part she's refering to.
07/12/2009 10:15:06 AM
- 666 Views
That's why I think this example of sarcasm works as opposed to Cadsuane who makes a false statement
07/12/2009 03:17:52 PM
- 724 Views
sarcasm is sarcasm. In both instances their is technically a lie.
07/12/2009 11:28:02 PM
- 684 Views
Not at all the case
07/12/2009 11:58:42 PM
- 771 Views
Do you really believe he waited till the last minute to tell Seonid?
14/12/2009 01:32:37 PM
- 831 Views
What about the Sheriam thing?
07/12/2009 01:49:32 PM
- 705 Views
Re: What about the Sheriam thing?
07/12/2009 02:15:25 PM
- 670 Views
But surely an Aes Sedai can answer a question she hasn't fully heard yet.
07/12/2009 03:06:34 PM
- 808 Views
Sarcasm
06/12/2009 07:14:47 PM
- 902 Views
It's obviously meant to be sarcasm, I just don't like
06/12/2009 07:18:40 PM
- 697 Views
Here is what RJ said about it
06/12/2009 07:41:18 PM
- 847 Views
Well I have to say I think RJ made the wrong call with this one *NM*
06/12/2009 07:43:47 PM
- 370 Views
Agreed.
07/12/2009 01:45:39 AM
- 651 Views
You can already drive a truck through the oaths. Does this one additional tiny gap really matter?
07/12/2009 04:07:16 AM
- 680 Views
what do you think a RL lie detector would tell in this case?
07/12/2009 12:27:07 PM
- 649 Views
in RL you would get warned by the investigator to cooperate
07/12/2009 01:04:33 PM
- 694 Views
But how would the machine reading indicate?
07/12/2009 07:04:22 PM
- 678 Views
Usually you're s'possed to answer with a yes or no. It's easy to tell when you're evasive
09/12/2009 10:46:58 PM
- 705 Views
Where's the problem?
09/12/2009 04:18:40 PM
- 610 Views
It's in the way the Oath is worded
09/12/2009 05:14:39 PM
- 665 Views
PS You misread my original quote
09/12/2009 11:00:56 PM
- 614 Views
Lies, untruths, sarcasm, and meaning
09/12/2009 07:46:25 PM
- 741 Views
We are starting understand each other
09/12/2009 10:09:41 PM
- 704 Views