He Died Heroically, Saving His People.
The Name With No Man Send a noteboard - 03/12/2009 06:39:02 PM
As I remember, a dragon killed him. Never underestimate the ancients (or early mediaevals) when tragedy is on the line. 
Remember the context: He was at the end of the line, all his battles long won and forgotten by everyone else, nothing left to do but polish his trophies and watch his subjects indolently revel in the peace he won them. Then a dragon showed up and gave him something useful to do ere the end. He slew the dragon, saved his people and didn't have to go back to irrelevance for the few months before he staggered off to his pyre. In the context of the times and culture, it was a happy ending. Really, "they lived happily ever after to the end of their days" isn't much of a finish anyway.
Regarding Lovecraft, well, I always put him in the "horror" subgenre, which means you don't expect good to win a lot. Perhaps that's part of why I like reading him. You don't know how it's going to end.
Mmm, seems like you usually do. Stacking the deck is stacking the deck, whichever way you make it fall.
Regarding WoT, I don't see the Shadow as poised to win. Everything that they've done seems to fail. Aginor and Balthamel were killed by a tree in Book 1 and the Trolloc army was routed. In Book 2 we have Rand's big victory at Falme in the clouds. In Book 3 two Forsaken were offed and the Stone of Tear fell to the Aiel. In Book 4 Rand took charge of the Aiel. In Book 5 he wasted Rahvin. It was prophecy fulfillment after prophecy fulfillment, with good consistently winning. Book 6 is my favourite because Rand WASN'T in control. The Shadow actually seemed to have a strategy for the first time in the whole series. I'm not sure how effective it is, but it's there.
Everything THEY do, yes. The Forsaken aren't the real decision makers, and none of those things have hindered the DOs ultimate goal much. Many of them were temporary, though it seems Aginor will be have the horse sense of a rock no matter how many times he returns. The big reversal was the Cleansing. Even that doesn't stop the Seals weakening, or the food spoiling, or the bloodshed covering much of Randland and beyond. The entire royal family of a continent spanning superpower is just--gone.... At least there's a civil war to replace them though.
Even the Forsaken are just means to an end, and self serving ones at that. Usually when we've seen them killed it's either been to serve a purpose for the DO (e.g. ) or because they made a losing side bet. Meanwhile the DO just keeps chugging away toward that light at the end of the tunnel, and, really, what's to stop him reaching it? Even Rand and prophecy agree he must.However, we haven't seen that bone-chilling moment when good realises that it was duped. I'm reminded of the second book of Mistborn - I won't say more if you haven't read it but I highly doubt that. You sit there and realise that things that seemed hard were just staged to seem hard...that some incredible force has been TOYING with people all along.
You mean like at the end of TEotW or at the end of TGH?
Rand: I won... again....
Ishy: Yeah, not really... again....
We haven't had anything remotely like that in Wheel of Time. It's all been a bit two-dimensional, really. Of course, that could change now. I'm hoping it will. A great cliffhanger at the end of Towers of Midnight would make people start to wonder if evil really will win (because good is dumb).
Seems to me like evil's got a leg up because it's a Manichean world. So what if the True Source contains all the Creators power between saidin and saidar (which isn't a given, but for the sake of argument. ) Every last mote of it JUST equals the DOs power, so it's almost as if to save the world Rand has to consume it in order to access an equal power. I mean, once he's lose, why fight Rand at all? Why not just end it right there, unmake Rand, the Wheel and everything else? And the Seals MUST be broken. Everyone agrees on that now. I honestly don't see how Jordan can do it, I just hope it isn't something really hokey and implausible.
Shadow win?
- 01/12/2009 04:20:36 PM
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The Shadow kind of has a big trump card
- 01/12/2009 04:30:38 PM
636 Views
If the Dark One wins, and destroys the Pattern, becomes the Creator and the Creator becomes the DO
- 01/12/2009 06:36:47 PM
436 Views
I used to hope for that, but the DO quotes and his choice of followers make it hard to like him. *NM*
- 01/12/2009 07:21:01 PM
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Fact is, people don't enjoy reading about doom and gloom.
- 01/12/2009 04:33:35 PM
696 Views
Yes they do. They're called the Malazaniacs ... They love emo to the max ...
- 02/12/2009 06:57:42 AM
449 Views
The DO is the real threat
- 01/12/2009 04:46:32 PM
512 Views
This is why fanfiction of soap operas and comics can be more entertaining than the real thing.
- 01/12/2009 06:09:17 PM
522 Views
Only if the DO isn't quite what we think he/it is.
- 01/12/2009 07:19:44 PM
545 Views
No, there is no sense that the Shadow can or will win.
- 01/12/2009 09:23:47 PM
453 Views
And RPA Reiterates Part of My Response.
- 02/12/2009 12:10:40 AM
540 Views
Beowulf did end badly, though
- 02/12/2009 05:40:52 AM
643 Views
He Died Heroically, Saving His People.
- 03/12/2009 06:39:02 PM
520 Views
With the Deck So Heavily Stacked in the DO's Favor, the Rest Just Makes Things Competitive.
- 02/12/2009 12:24:18 AM
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I always had the sense that the DO's minions are really just meant to be distractions
- 02/12/2009 06:30:27 AM
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