Fionwe - Are there really limits on the durability of a wall of air? When lifting something with air we see it but once you have something in place I don't remember any case where it can break down. Things made with the power are described as eternal and indestructible no matter what mundane (not one power) power is placed against them.
Going to the specifics of this theory, a shield of air against vacuum has to withstand a force of 1 Atmosphere which is no biggy. We see Rand do it when warding against the differential of one against a half atmosphere when he sit atop Dragonmount.
To ward against the pressure of sea bottom is more problematic since there the pressure is 100s of atmospheres. Still walls of air are supposed to be indestructible. Are they weaker then a sheet of thick iron (which is capable of protecting a submarine from such pressures)? I suppose if he's desperate he can even make the cage out of cuendilar.
Anyway the bigger question this thread made me think about is:
Do inanimate objects move on their own across a Gateway? I think the answer is no. Only living being have the capacity to decide to move. Inanimate objects do no though energy (like light) does.
Edit to add - I didn't understand the part in tGS about the new technique Nynaeve finds. What is it?
I feel that the issues you raised present the serious barriers to such an implementation of gateways. The, shall we say "practical" issues raised by Fionwe are minor details for which there can be many different potential solutions.
For example, if channelers can planet hop across solar systems, it is obvious that some planets would have very different atmoshperes. Perhaps atmospheres so miniscule that you have close to a 1 atmosphere pressure differential. Some other planets may have atmospheres so dense that you may have pressure differentials of MANY atmospheres, but in the opposite direction.
So clearly, channelers were able to counter these effects when making gateways to Travel across the galaxy.
So the practicalities are not of consequence.
What IS of consequence, is whether there are fundamental problems with using the greater pressure on two sides of a gateway to generate some kind of movement of fluid/gas or even solid matter.
Your suggestion that inanimate matter cannot move across a gateway on its own might well be the likely answer. I think we don't have enough information yet to prove it one way or another, but your proposal seems likely in order to avoid all kinds of weird scenarios, not to mention perpetual motion energy generators (if you create horizontal gateways above one another and have an object perpetually falling through the bottom one only to come out of the top one again, in an endless cycle).
These are the issues that I was interested in discussing. And that's why I got somewhat irritated in the discussion with Fionwe, where lame stuff like "the channeler creating the gateway will be sucked through it and be lost in space" kept being raised.
With all the abilities so far demonstrated with the Power, and all the unknown abilities yet unrevealed, it seems virtually assured that safety measures exist that can protect a channeler from virtually every physical danger.
The fundamental issues, though, cannot be circumvented so easily.
Thanks for your thought provoking response to my original question.
By the way I edited my post after you replied to it to add some technical numerical stumbling blocks to your theory. People keep overestimating the power of space and the punity of the Earth. Our planet is still huge, we must remember. Tell me if my figures are off.
If the Forsaken really wanted to defeat the Light - gateways at the bottom of the ocean...
20/11/2009 02:02:59 PM
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I've actually thought that would be a great way to make a power plant.
20/11/2009 02:48:21 PM
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The Forsaken don't think like that
20/11/2009 02:57:27 PM
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I specifically referred to Ishamael, who shares none of those motivations with the other Forsaken...
20/11/2009 03:11:26 PM
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What in the world... outer space?? This is fantasy, not sci-fi *NM*
20/11/2009 03:08:26 PM
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RJ has stated that channelers can Travel to other planets, even other solar systems...
20/11/2009 03:12:37 PM
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I didn't expect him to answer that question, it was just something I was wondering about
20/11/2009 04:06:53 PM
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OK...
20/11/2009 05:15:32 PM
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Moghedien talks about how they travelled to other stars in the Age of Legends...
20/11/2009 06:09:17 PM
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Because it is a world that is undergoing an industrial revolution
21/11/2009 01:19:28 AM
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This brings up an "Evil Wins, What Next?" scenario I've always wondered about
20/11/2009 03:39:14 PM
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The DO doesn't have the motivations of the forsaken, he doesn't think like a human...
22/11/2009 03:38:15 PM
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They would have to know the bottom of the ocean very well to create. *NM*
20/11/2009 05:02:50 PM
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Wouldn't be too hard, given Rand's trick. *NM*
20/11/2009 05:12:22 PM
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Intense preasure would kill you before you could weave or a hell of a shield bubble *NM*
20/11/2009 07:01:58 PM
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Gateway "magic" accounts for this, or most gateways would have STRONG breeze
20/11/2009 06:43:44 PM
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Very conducive places, the bottom of the sea and outer space...
20/11/2009 07:01:56 PM
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Knee jerk disagreement without thinking beyond: "I don't like the idea so let's flame it..."
20/11/2009 07:12:38 PM
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And your response is even sillier ideas? Think for more than three minutes before responding again.
20/11/2009 11:08:59 PM
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You need to go read FoH again...
21/11/2009 03:35:01 AM
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The Silliness Continues-Part IV of Shannow's crazy ways to commit suicide...
21/11/2009 05:44:34 AM
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On the limits of power
21/11/2009 07:32:44 AM
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Great question. These fundamental issues are the REAL challenges to be overcome, yes...
21/11/2009 07:50:46 AM
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Thanks
21/11/2009 08:03:28 AM
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Fluids CAN move across gateways on their own. We saw it with the draft of wind in tGS. *NM*
21/11/2009 01:32:46 PM
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Oh, and regarding the new Travelling skill Nynaeve mentions in tGS...
21/11/2009 08:03:45 AM
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Ah, thanks
21/11/2009 08:10:48 AM
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Actually, I just reread that passage, and now I'm confused again...
21/11/2009 08:30:17 AM
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Its pretty simple...
21/11/2009 08:07:14 PM
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You don't learn a place when you Travel TO it...
21/11/2009 08:23:11 PM
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The same issue again...
21/11/2009 08:58:37 PM
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They might have shared Gateways, so only those who wove them know the area? *NM*
21/11/2009 10:00:04 PM
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That has to be the first sensible question broached in this thread...
21/11/2009 09:18:59 PM
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The simplest explanation'd be that GWs can't be opened in water, since it moves/changes constantly
20/11/2009 07:27:08 PM
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Or balefire Rand. Wait a few generations near Dragonmount, kidnap all children born on the slopes...
20/11/2009 09:07:46 PM
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Why didn't Frodo and Sam just ride the Eagles to Mt. Doom, and toss the Ring then fly back? *NM*
20/11/2009 10:35:17 PM
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Actually here's an even simpler idea: open a gateway into a Black Hole. *NM*
21/11/2009 01:53:38 AM
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You can't...there aren't any Black Holes close enough...
21/11/2009 03:22:38 AM
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Doubtful
21/11/2009 03:29:35 AM
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Surely Moridin could channel enough of the True Power... *NM*
21/11/2009 01:19:05 PM
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Moridin cannot channel any more of the True Power than he can of the One Power.
21/11/2009 01:58:30 PM
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