Active Users:365 Time:04/04/2025 12:04:56 AM
Oh come on. You're totally twisting that passage to suit your argument... Shannow Send a noteboard - 18/11/2009 09:54:56 PM
And what if she had still been here? she wondered. With the necklace off, and maybe whoever freed her? Shivering, she withdrew slowly. Moghedien had good reason to dislike her, very personally, and the only sister who could match one of the Forsaken alone, when she could channel at all, was in Ebou Dar. Moghedien
could have killed Eg-wene without anyone noticing; even had a sister felt her channel, there would be nothing remarkable in that. Worse, Moghedien might not have killed her. And no one would have known anything until they found the pair of them gone.


She clearly mentions the person who freed Moggy, and wonders what would have happened if Moggy surprised her.

Yes, it seems, she thinks she cannot match any of the Foresaken alone. But then she says this, too:

For that matter, what good would it have done? It had to be one of the Forsaken. Do you really think Faolain and Theodrin together could have stopped him? I'm not sure I could have, even linked
with Romanda and Lelaine."


If Egwene thinks there's a chance for her, linked with Romanda and Lelaine, to stop one of the Male Forsaken and Moggy, she is, if anything, indicating her strength. She has faced Lanfear, and felt Moghedien's power, after all. It isn't as if her estimation is unrealistic!

I think what she's acknowledging that she is weaker than Moggy, and could have been surprised by her. I doubt that means Egwene cannot fight Moghedien.

RJ said Elayne, Egwene and Aviendha are but a step below the Forsaken.

And remember, Nynaeve in aCoS couldn't shield Elayne, and Elayne wasn't at her full strength either.

Like with Nynaeve, I can only say that it is folly to simply write of the strength of the chief female protagonist. She may not be the strongest, but Egwene is just below Forsaken strength. I don't doubt she can give a good fight to some of them at least.


Can it be stated any clearer? "The only sister who could match one of the Forsaken was in Ebou Dar. Moghedien could have killed Egwene without anyone noticing."

There. Egwene says the only sister who can match Moghedien is in Ebou Dar. Now, unless you are saying Egwene is in Ebou Dar while thinking this, this settles the debate. Egwene herself has settled it. In the context of that sentence, the next one is even more explicit. She has already said she cannot match Moghedien. Now she goes on to say Moghedien could kill her without anyone noticing. What more do you want?

Must she say "I cannot hope to match Moghedien's strength?" Oh wait, she's already said that!

As for the Lelaine, Romanda and Egwene quote. For Pete's sake, she is talking about them matcing the male Forsaken that freed Moghedien. Not about them matching the two together.

She and Aviendha combined cannot even match Lanfear. And Egwene plus Aviendha is already stronger than Egwene plus Lelaine plus Romanda.

I cannot believe you are even trying to twist this passage in the way you just did. The passage is as clear as it can possibly be.


Reply to message
Thanks to Sanderson, we now have a DEFINITIVE female Forsaken strength list... - 18/11/2009 05:56:58 PM 2253 Views
Sounds good - 18/11/2009 06:08:15 PM 1141 Views
Re: Sounds good - 18/11/2009 06:12:53 PM 1214 Views
Re: Someryn - 18/11/2009 06:20:44 PM 1183 Views
I acknowledge that possibility... - 18/11/2009 06:24:30 PM 1086 Views
Someryn implies that Graendal is stronger. - 19/11/2009 01:51:31 PM 1189 Views
Excellent point...I'd forgotten about that... - 19/11/2009 02:00:30 PM 1103 Views
As I understand it... - 18/11/2009 06:23:26 PM 1189 Views
My view is that the new list is just a revised one, after RJ changed his mind on some things... - 18/11/2009 06:28:53 PM 1234 Views
Agreed. - 18/11/2009 06:31:22 PM 1049 Views
I suppose that's possible. *NM* - 18/11/2009 06:31:42 PM 845 Views
I agree with this interpretation on the new vs. old list - 18/11/2009 07:13:02 PM 1130 Views
Re: Sounds good - 18/11/2009 07:11:17 PM 1032 Views
Also, a couple more questions, if I may... - 18/11/2009 07:18:50 PM 1039 Views
Re: Also, a couple more questions, if I may... - 18/11/2009 07:23:45 PM 1058 Views
One problem... - 18/11/2009 06:10:06 PM 1233 Views
No... - 18/11/2009 06:14:48 PM 1136 Views
That's not a problem. - 18/11/2009 06:31:37 PM 1091 Views
Why on earth would there be multiple restrictions on Cyndane's strength? - 18/11/2009 06:47:56 PM 986 Views
Sorry buddy - 18/11/2009 07:36:00 PM 1111 Views
Re: Sorry buddy - 18/11/2009 09:49:01 PM 1031 Views
But Nynaeve and Mogheiden were of equal strength - 18/11/2009 06:15:52 PM 1272 Views
Nynaeve matched Moghedien when Nynaeve was not close to her full potential yet... - 18/11/2009 06:19:07 PM 1329 Views
I agree...and I have a question regarding Moghedien. - 18/11/2009 06:30:07 PM 1118 Views
Cyndane has to be above Graendal. *NM* - 18/11/2009 06:33:16 PM 615 Views
You're right. I'll post new list below. *NM* - 18/11/2009 06:39:36 PM 632 Views
Was she? Nyn was mid20s and a wilder, I thought she had reached full strength - 18/11/2009 08:00:24 PM 1172 Views
She really hasn't had that much time channelling though. - 18/11/2009 08:07:31 PM 828 Views
Wilders rarely reach their full potential if they're blocked. *NM* - 18/11/2009 08:43:30 PM 657 Views
I know the Cleansing forced her a bit. - 18/11/2009 08:44:59 PM 1118 Views
That's been said before- anyone know where it says that in the text? - 19/11/2009 05:53:50 AM 896 Views
More or less agreed. I was right about Nynaeve! - 18/11/2009 06:29:27 PM 1040 Views
IMO... - 18/11/2009 06:37:19 PM 1159 Views
I don't know... - 18/11/2009 06:56:10 PM 1027 Views
I still think Alivia is below Lanfear's strength level... - 18/11/2009 06:59:01 PM 1333 Views
That just doesn't make sense... - 18/11/2009 07:02:17 PM 1151 Views
I agree that Lanfear and Alivia are tied. *NM* - 18/11/2009 07:06:19 PM 639 Views
All of my instincts indeed argue that 4 of the Forsaken CANNOT be below Nynaeve, but... - 18/11/2009 07:06:25 PM 989 Views
But why doesn't it make sense? - 18/11/2009 08:47:42 PM 878 Views
I don't think... - 18/11/2009 07:08:09 PM 1210 Views
Damane never recieve special status... - 18/11/2009 08:52:32 PM 1021 Views
Good point... - 18/11/2009 09:00:51 PM 1043 Views
Thing is... - 18/11/2009 09:10:45 PM 1091 Views
My point was... - 18/11/2009 09:05:28 PM 1085 Views
I agree *NM* - 18/11/2009 09:10:46 PM 604 Views
If Tuon had the strongest... - 18/11/2009 09:12:22 PM 1003 Views
Sera must be stronger... - 18/11/2009 09:25:00 PM 993 Views
There's no reason to be certain about it... - 18/11/2009 09:28:26 PM 1044 Views
Well, the Bloodknives are precisely Tuon's tools - 18/11/2009 09:32:46 PM 993 Views
There are SIX women stronger than Nynaeve, and at least five are accounted for... - 18/11/2009 09:46:28 PM 1054 Views
There are six stronger women named on the list - 19/11/2009 11:40:52 AM 1052 Views
I'm not ignoring Sera! - 19/11/2009 06:13:43 PM 914 Views
You misunderstand me... - 19/11/2009 06:16:31 PM 994 Views
I doesn't make "sense". Let's leave it... - 19/11/2009 06:19:52 PM 992 Views
But Alivia (while strong in the OP) is an old fraile lady on her deathbed. *NM* - 18/11/2009 09:41:33 PM 640 Views
Pardon? Don't understand this really. *NM* - 19/11/2009 11:45:21 AM 477 Views
You keep saying Alivia was "a common damane" - 28/11/2009 08:58:42 PM 850 Views
You were right about Nynaeve, I was right about Graendal! Well done! - 18/11/2009 06:37:42 PM 1132 Views
Yes. This is one WoT debate coming to a close... - 18/11/2009 06:54:06 PM 899 Views
I have one problem with your list. - 18/11/2009 06:36:02 PM 1092 Views
RJ said the Forsaken ALWAYS overrate themselves... - 18/11/2009 06:54:45 PM 955 Views
Mesaana is cold and calculating. - 18/11/2009 07:03:49 PM 1003 Views
I'm sorry, but I find it mindblowing that you find this mindblowing. - 18/11/2009 06:36:37 PM 1036 Views
Some of us have been debating this for 5 years on Wotmania... - 18/11/2009 06:57:08 PM 1100 Views
I think it goes like this: - 18/11/2009 06:53:07 PM 1043 Views
There is a side effect to all of this rearrangement...we may have to rethink the wonder girls. - 18/11/2009 07:04:17 PM 1095 Views
We'll have to re-read the sections where Moghedien is captured. - 18/11/2009 07:08:07 PM 1010 Views
Damn. That's a thought I definitely DON'T relish. Thankfully... - 18/11/2009 07:09:18 PM 1040 Views
Where does she say this? - 18/11/2009 08:54:39 PM 1054 Views
No, she explicitly refers to herself vs Moghedien... - 18/11/2009 09:01:53 PM 1055 Views
Here are the quotes... - 18/11/2009 09:24:24 PM 1065 Views
Oh come on. You're totally twisting that passage to suit your argument... - 18/11/2009 09:54:56 PM 962 Views
I could say the same... - 18/11/2009 10:50:44 PM 969 Views
So let me get this straight... - 19/11/2009 06:44:03 AM 980 Views
No... - 19/11/2009 07:37:29 AM 1039 Views
Look at it this way... - 19/11/2009 10:23:06 AM 1011 Views
Dude, there were other quotes... - 19/11/2009 06:15:32 PM 919 Views
What about Sammael? The debate about Sammael and Rahvin has been decided now too. - 18/11/2009 08:03:35 PM 1085 Views
Totally disagree... - 18/11/2009 08:08:34 PM 1121 Views
Re: Totally disagree... - 18/11/2009 08:22:07 PM 1011 Views
Males likely go like this... - 18/11/2009 08:27:27 PM 984 Views
Dude, Rand is scared of Graendal... - 18/11/2009 09:05:28 PM 988 Views
Disagree... - 18/11/2009 09:09:45 PM 1089 Views
Disagree back... for the last time though... - 18/11/2009 09:39:25 PM 942 Views
About the top 6... - 18/11/2009 10:08:37 PM 1016 Views
And One Power Battles turn political on a regualr basis, do they? - 18/11/2009 10:54:35 PM 1075 Views
That's ridiculous... - 19/11/2009 07:19:08 AM 952 Views
Re: That's ridiculous... - 19/11/2009 08:08:14 AM 1002 Views
Well... - 19/11/2009 10:29:45 AM 1004 Views
This is getting idiotic... - 19/11/2009 06:19:08 PM 994 Views
Re: Dude, Rand is scared of Graendal... - 10/12/2010 07:31:18 PM 998 Views
If Rahvin were stronger... - 18/11/2009 08:59:32 PM 965 Views
Disagreement - 19/11/2009 01:39:49 AM 1099 Views
Some more from Brandon... - 19/11/2009 04:29:41 AM 997 Views
So we're back where we started? - 19/11/2009 04:56:36 AM 803 Views
Re: So we're back where we started? - 19/11/2009 05:18:15 AM 1090 Views
Someone must ask him: Is Cyndane one of the 6 above Nynaeve. - 19/11/2009 05:35:10 AM 957 Views
My opinion: down this path lies insanity. - 19/11/2009 02:53:59 PM 1032 Views
Thoughts - 19/11/2009 04:55:09 AM 1103 Views

Reply to Message