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Re: Do you realise what this means! We now have a clear strength list among the female Forsaken... rhiane Send a noteboard - 18/11/2009 09:27:06 PM
That's quite absurd and refuted by the text!
And who are then the six women stronger than Nynaeve, if Cyndane and Mesaana aren't stronger? Alivia, Graendal, Semirhage, some super damane from Tuon?

BTW, BS explicitly stated that he didn't mean that Asmo was balefired. He also said that there are other RAFO circumstances besides balefire, which prevent a transmigration. This fits with RJ's comment that the DO couldn't transmigrate Asmo because of how AND where he died (if Asmo was balefired the DO couldn't already transmigrate him for that sole reason!). IMO, a certain death in TAR is such a circumstance.

However, the theories that Sammael or Be'lal were transmigrated seem pretty much crushed. Since Osan'gar wasn't balefired, he might have been transmigrated, though, if the DO is such keen on bringing back his original Forsaken. Maybe hs is truly Moridin's messenger seen in the prologue of TGS.

And we know now that Rand's sword is indeed a RAFO.

Good report!


Brandon said that he stated that Cyndane was "very weakened", and he stressed the "ened" part. Another indirect confirmation that Cyndane is Lanfear, but also stressing that she is not weak in the Power, but just much less than she was. Which leads me to believe that Alivia was definitely stronger than Cyndane at the Cleansing, but most likely not stronger than Lanfear had been.


If his Cyndane quote is accurate as you suggest, referring merely to her being "weakened", but still strong, then a lot of things suddenly become clear.

1. There are 6 females above Nynaeve, but Cyndane is DEFINITELY not one of them, according to Sanderson. He is "pretty sure" that Semirhage isn't stronger than her either, but not 100% certain. In any event, Nynaeve and Semirhage are very close to one another in strength.

Cyndane is according to him significantly weakened, and he had no hesitation in placing her below Nynaeve. He wasn't as sure about Semirhage.

We know from before that Cyndane is stronger than Graendal. And Sanderson says that Mesaana is not particularly strong for a Forsaken, and definitely below Nynaeve as well. We've always known Moghedien is the weakest of the female Forsaken.

Here then, is the definitive female Forsaken strength list:

Lanfear
Semirhage
Cyndane
Graendal
Mesaana
Moghedien

And it seems Nynaeve either falls at the same level as Semirhage, or slightly above Semirhage.

There we have it then, in black and white.


Brandon did say "very weakened" three times in two sentences, he was pretty adamant that she was not weak, but only weakened.

I would say your female Forsaken list is accurate. With all the comparisons added together throughout the series, and with the new information this week, it couldn't really be any other way.
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my Q&A and time spent with Brandon Sanderson kcf - 17/11/2009 04:23:32 PM 2097 Views
Cyndane is "very, very weak"?! Etzel - 17/11/2009 04:41:32 PM 968 Views
Maybe Asmo doesn't count as a Forsaken anymore and what is MAFO? Dragonsworn - 17/11/2009 05:35:05 PM 863 Views
MAFO refers to Maria, RJ's assistant. Kaldric - 17/11/2009 05:46:08 PM 3025 Views
Yes... Etzel - 17/11/2009 06:02:26 PM 1543 Views
I'm just reporting on the discussion kcf - 17/11/2009 09:04:56 PM 787 Views
I asked Brandon to clarify last night in Pasadena about Cyndane rhiane - 18/11/2009 05:22:14 PM 718 Views
Do you realise what this means! We now have a clear strength list among the female Forsaken... Shannow - 18/11/2009 05:42:51 PM 707 Views
That means, though Etzel - 18/11/2009 05:48:15 PM 668 Views
I've started a new thread, giving the new, DEFINITIVE female Forsaken strength list. Yay!!! *NM* Shannow - 18/11/2009 05:58:03 PM 370 Views
Re: Do you realise what this means! We now have a clear strength list among the female Forsaken... rhiane - 18/11/2009 09:27:06 PM 830 Views
Thanks! Etzel - 18/11/2009 05:50:35 PM 657 Views
That doesn't crush the Be'lal theories. rAndy aL - 19/11/2009 01:13:32 AM 620 Views
trust me, it does kcf - 19/11/2009 04:22:47 AM 631 Views
I apparently have to Log In to read this. Kaldric - 17/11/2009 05:33:03 PM 838 Views
You don't need the email confirmation! Dragonsworn - 17/11/2009 05:36:40 PM 804 Views
Hm. I could have sworn I saw something about an email confirmation. Thanks. *NM* Kaldric - 17/11/2009 05:38:14 PM 373 Views
Naw how about you quote it for us in a new post *NM* Lord o' Salv - 18/11/2009 12:18:52 AM 429 Views
The strength comparisons don't make sense... Shannow - 17/11/2009 06:26:05 PM 885 Views
Re: The strength comparisons don't make sense... Lordling - 17/11/2009 06:55:39 PM 704 Views
BS also says in this context... Etzel - 17/11/2009 07:05:25 PM 681 Views
If you read it in context, the list he is referring to is a female list... Shannow - 17/11/2009 07:41:18 PM 742 Views
I don't think... Etzel - 17/11/2009 07:48:36 PM 588 Views
How do we explain BS stating that he is "pretty sure Nynaeve is stronger than Semirhage?" Shannow - 17/11/2009 07:51:39 PM 1103 Views
Difficult... Etzel - 17/11/2009 07:58:41 PM 779 Views
Pahus! Yeah, you´re correct *NM* Lordling - 17/11/2009 07:59:49 PM 371 Views
Re: The strength comparisons don't make sense... Kaldric - 17/11/2009 07:22:38 PM 889 Views
I think he mis-spoke just a bit VTHokie - 17/11/2009 07:37:24 PM 591 Views
He wasn/t 100% sure of Semirhage... *NM* Shannow - 17/11/2009 07:44:11 PM 368 Views
forgetting Cyndane, it does kcf - 17/11/2009 08:56:16 PM 730 Views
No Forsaken knew, when the Cleansing would happen... Etzel - 17/11/2009 09:43:04 PM 805 Views
Re: No Forsaken knew, when the Cleansing would happen... kcf - 17/11/2009 09:48:31 PM 660 Views
Talaan and Someryn are pure guesses from Dom... Shannow - 17/11/2009 10:06:56 PM 758 Views
Elayne at the beginning of PoD thinks Talaan is at least as great as Nyn NaClH2O - 18/11/2009 12:23:31 AM 619 Views
She defeats her (eventually) guttering flame - 18/11/2009 06:08:08 AM 590 Views
Sharina for sure NaClH2O - 18/11/2009 12:10:08 AM 653 Views
Thanks Ken! Light in the Night - 17/11/2009 07:07:03 PM 625 Views
Re: Thanks Ken! Kaldric - 17/11/2009 07:30:07 PM 743 Views
It almost has to be Justice Matrimony Cauthon - 17/11/2009 07:30:32 PM 660 Views
I agree, Justice makes the most sense plotwise! *NM* Etzel - 17/11/2009 07:49:41 PM 461 Views
But here's the thing.... Light in the Night - 17/11/2009 10:27:55 PM 681 Views
I think the clues still point to it being Justice Matrimony Cauthon - 17/11/2009 10:37:44 PM 819 Views
I was just making argument Light in the Night - 17/11/2009 11:05:18 PM 678 Views
Guaire Amalasan! Legolas - 18/11/2009 12:50:09 AM 701 Views
Maybe Hawkwing took Justice from Amalasan after the Battle of the Jolvaine Pass? Werthead - 18/11/2009 02:09:03 AM 779 Views
That was the crazy part - I named him as one of LitN's "other channelers producing weapons". Legolas - 18/11/2009 02:17:25 AM 615 Views
Re: Guaire Amalasan! Light in the Night - 18/11/2009 09:18:37 AM 738 Views
And I appreciate your arguments! Matrimony Cauthon - 18/11/2009 08:49:55 AM 653 Views
Perhaps it's a "Sword for the Ages" Light in the Night - 18/11/2009 09:26:00 AM 584 Views
Where does it say it was found in water? guttering flame - 18/11/2009 09:36:52 AM 556 Views
Min's PoV said that it was found in water underneath a statue Matrimony Cauthon - 18/11/2009 09:47:12 AM 624 Views
Re: Thanks Ken! DomA - 17/11/2009 07:58:31 PM 683 Views
Re: Thanks Ken! kcf - 17/11/2009 09:07:23 PM 595 Views
Re: Thanks Ken! Light in the Night - 17/11/2009 10:41:27 PM 598 Views
Thank you Ken for the report. You aren't pulling our leg are you? Logain - 17/11/2009 11:11:48 PM 775 Views
Re: Thank you Ken for the report. You aren't pulling our leg are you? kcf - 17/11/2009 11:26:30 PM 648 Views
My theories of what Brandon could have meant about Cyndane. Logain - 17/11/2009 11:25:30 PM 745 Views
Who is the Aiel chick with all the one power strength? I forget who, but she is Shaido. *NM* Logain - 17/11/2009 11:34:42 PM 367 Views
Someryn *NM* kcf - 17/11/2009 11:38:42 PM 374 Views
One of the women stronger than Nynaeve is probably a Sharan Logain - 17/11/2009 11:53:12 PM 635 Views
don't read too much into this kcf - 18/11/2009 12:00:19 AM 596 Views
It could be true Logain - 18/11/2009 02:14:50 AM 645 Views
This is RJ's Wheel of Time we're talking about. Not David Eddings. *NM* Legolas - 18/11/2009 02:18:08 AM 352 Views
Cyndane's body guttering flame - 18/11/2009 06:22:45 AM 594 Views
Not her body, her identity - that she is Lanfear... Shannow - 18/11/2009 06:38:21 AM 578 Views
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