Sammael is one of the top 6 Forsaken. Rahvin is not.
Sammael matches Rand's strength at a later stage than Rahvin did.
Rahvin also acknowledges in Book 5 that Sammael is AT LEAST as strong as he is.
Personally, I think that Moridin's casual comment has been taken WAY out of context, by people trying to justify Graendal's strength.
Moridin simply ackonwledged that One Power battles are unpredictable, and that anything was possible. If Graendal struck faster than Sammael, then his greater strength would mean nothing.
You're probably right then about Sammael compared to Rahvin, but there is room for debate on that point mainly because Rand had an angreal, but Rahvin had knowledge of Tel'aran'rhiod (and help from Graendal).
I still think that there is no debating that Graendal is AT THE VERY LEAST on level 5 of the women. If you want to put Sammael on level four of the men, then we can do that, but somebody has to fill levels 2 and 3. I'm willing to put Sammael plus or minus one level on the male scale as compared to Graendal on the women scale. But it wouldn't make sense for Sammael to be on level 3 on the men because that would not make sense with Moridin's comment. Somebody has to fill the male level 3 if it isn't Sammael. Possibly Be'lal? The guide does say Be'lal surpassed both Rahvin and Sammael in strength...maybe it meant one power strength all along and not just political maneuvering.
Possibly it goes like this:
100 - Rand / Ishamael
95 - Aginor / Demandred
90 - Be'lal
85 - Sammael / Rahvin option 1 / Balthamel option 1
80 - Rahvin option 2 / Balthamel option 2
75 - Asmodean
Thanks to Sanderson, we now have a DEFINITIVE female Forsaken strength list...
18/11/2009 05:56:58 PM
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Sounds good
18/11/2009 06:08:15 PM
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Re: Sounds good
18/11/2009 06:12:53 PM
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Re: Someryn
18/11/2009 06:20:44 PM
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As I understand it...
18/11/2009 06:23:26 PM
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My view is that the new list is just a revised one, after RJ changed his mind on some things...
18/11/2009 06:28:53 PM
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Re: Sounds good
18/11/2009 07:11:17 PM
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Did it sound like Sanderson knew the names of all 6 women above Nynaeve?
18/11/2009 07:12:57 PM
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Re: Did it sound like Sanderson knew the names of all 6 women above Nynaeve?
18/11/2009 07:15:22 PM
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Also, a couple more questions, if I may...
18/11/2009 07:18:50 PM
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Re: Also, a couple more questions, if I may...
18/11/2009 07:23:45 PM
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But you said that you asked him whether Cyndane was one of the 6, and he said no.
18/11/2009 07:26:17 PM
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Re: But you said that you asked him whether Cyndane was one of the 6, and he said no.
18/11/2009 07:31:35 PM
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One problem...
18/11/2009 06:10:06 PM
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No...
18/11/2009 06:14:48 PM
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That's not a problem.
18/11/2009 06:31:37 PM
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Why on earth would there be multiple restrictions on Cyndane's strength?
18/11/2009 06:47:56 PM
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Sorry buddy
18/11/2009 07:36:00 PM
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Re: Sorry buddy
18/11/2009 09:49:01 PM
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Are you able to give any more detail on Sanderson's answer to your Cyndane question?
18/11/2009 10:02:17 PM
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But Nynaeve and Mogheiden were of equal strength
18/11/2009 06:15:52 PM
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Nynaeve matched Moghedien when Nynaeve was not close to her full potential yet...
18/11/2009 06:19:07 PM
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I agree...and I have a question regarding Moghedien.
18/11/2009 06:30:07 PM
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Was she? Nyn was mid20s and a wilder, I thought she had reached full strength
18/11/2009 08:00:24 PM
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As late as CoS, Nynaeve states that she is not close to her full potential yet. *NM*
18/11/2009 08:04:47 PM
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Wilders rarely reach their full potential if they're blocked. *NM*
18/11/2009 08:43:30 PM
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I know the Cleansing forced her a bit.
18/11/2009 08:44:59 PM
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That's been said before- anyone know where it says that in the text?
19/11/2009 05:53:50 AM
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Re: Nynaeve matched Moghedien when Nynaeve was not close to her full potential yet...
10/12/2010 08:07:05 PM
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Re: Thanks to Sanderson, we now have a DEFINITIVE female Forsaken strength list...
18/11/2009 06:22:50 PM
- 992 Views
More or less agreed. I was right about Nynaeve!
18/11/2009 06:29:27 PM
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IMO...
18/11/2009 06:37:19 PM
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I don't know...
18/11/2009 06:56:10 PM
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I still think Alivia is below Lanfear's strength level...
18/11/2009 06:59:01 PM
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That just doesn't make sense...
18/11/2009 07:02:17 PM
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All of my instincts indeed argue that 4 of the Forsaken CANNOT be below Nynaeve, but...
18/11/2009 07:06:25 PM
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But why doesn't it make sense?
18/11/2009 08:47:42 PM
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Talaan, Alivia and Sharina reduced my estimation of Nynaeve dramatically...
18/11/2009 08:54:29 PM
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All this can be explained by the fact that Nynaeve was yet to reach her potential.
18/11/2009 09:25:41 PM
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I don't think...
18/11/2009 07:08:09 PM
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Damane never recieve special status...
18/11/2009 08:52:32 PM
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Good point...
18/11/2009 09:00:51 PM
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Thing is...
18/11/2009 09:10:45 PM
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Lanfear cannot even defeat Rand. Nynaeve wouldn't last a minute against him.
18/11/2009 09:13:06 PM
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And Rand couldn't defeat Lanfear. What's your point?
18/11/2009 09:26:06 PM
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He could. RJ stated it in a Q&A. Rand just couldn't bring himself to do it...
18/11/2009 09:45:18 PM
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But so could Lanfear, and both had angreal, confusing the situation considerably.
18/11/2009 09:47:25 PM
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My point was...
18/11/2009 09:05:28 PM
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If Tuon had the strongest...
18/11/2009 09:12:22 PM
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Sera must be stronger...
18/11/2009 09:25:00 PM
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There's no reason to be certain about it...
18/11/2009 09:28:26 PM
- 1048 Views
Well, the Bloodknives are precisely Tuon's tools
18/11/2009 09:32:46 PM
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There are SIX women stronger than Nynaeve, and at least five are accounted for...
18/11/2009 09:46:28 PM
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There are six stronger women named on the list
19/11/2009 11:40:52 AM
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I'm not ignoring Sera!
19/11/2009 06:13:43 PM
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There are SIX women stronger than Nynaeve, and at least five are accounted for...
18/11/2009 09:46:29 PM
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But Alivia (while strong in the OP) is an old fraile lady on her deathbed. *NM*
18/11/2009 09:41:33 PM
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You were right about Nynaeve, I was right about Graendal! Well done!
18/11/2009 06:37:42 PM
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I have one problem with your list.
18/11/2009 06:36:02 PM
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RJ said the Forsaken ALWAYS overrate themselves...
18/11/2009 06:54:45 PM
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I totally agree. Mesaana is weaker than Semirhage. This was also confirmed by BS *NM*
18/11/2009 06:56:30 PM
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I'm sorry, but I find it mindblowing that you find this mindblowing.
18/11/2009 06:36:37 PM
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There is a side effect to all of this rearrangement...we may have to rethink the wonder girls.
18/11/2009 07:04:17 PM
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Damn. That's a thought I definitely DON'T relish. Thankfully...
18/11/2009 07:09:18 PM
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Helpless at her strength at the time, or helpless at Egwene's full potential? *NM*
18/11/2009 07:26:15 PM
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Egwene was forced, so she was already at her full potential when she made this comment. *NM*
18/11/2009 07:45:08 PM
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I admit she was forced, but how does that guarantee she was at full strength? *NM*
18/11/2009 08:06:40 PM
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I'm 90% sure it is stated somewhere... *NM*
18/11/2009 08:10:03 PM
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Egwene was at her full strength. Elayne comments on this in The Shadow Rising IIRC.
18/11/2009 08:34:37 PM
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Where does she say this?
18/11/2009 08:54:39 PM
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No, she explicitly refers to herself vs Moghedien...
18/11/2009 09:01:53 PM
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Here are the quotes...
18/11/2009 09:24:24 PM
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Oh come on. You're totally twisting that passage to suit your argument...
18/11/2009 09:54:56 PM
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I could say the same...
18/11/2009 10:50:44 PM
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So let me get this straight...
19/11/2009 06:44:03 AM
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No...
19/11/2009 07:37:29 AM
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What about Sammael? The debate about Sammael and Rahvin has been decided now too.
18/11/2009 08:03:35 PM
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Totally disagree...
18/11/2009 08:08:34 PM
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Re: Totally disagree...
18/11/2009 08:22:07 PM
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Dude, Rand is scared of Graendal...
18/11/2009 09:05:28 PM
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Disagree...
18/11/2009 09:09:45 PM
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Disagree back... for the last time though...
18/11/2009 09:39:25 PM
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About the top 6...
18/11/2009 10:08:37 PM
- 1019 Views
And One Power Battles turn political on a regualr basis, do they?
18/11/2009 10:54:35 PM
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That's ridiculous...
19/11/2009 07:19:08 AM
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Re: That's ridiculous...
19/11/2009 08:08:14 AM
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If Rahvin were stronger...
18/11/2009 08:59:32 PM
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Graendal could not face down Rand. And if she thinks she can it is b/c she has an angreal. *NM*
18/11/2009 09:49:00 PM
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But Rand did not know of her angreal. *NM*
19/11/2009 12:03:21 AM
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Rand knows he can beat Graendal in a heads-up-duel. Graendal knows she would lose. *NM*
28/11/2009 10:07:27 PM
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Some more from Brandon...
19/11/2009 04:29:41 AM
- 999 Views
So we're back where we started?
19/11/2009 04:56:36 AM
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Re: Thanks to Sanderson, we now have a DEFINITIVE female Forsaken strength list...
10/12/2010 07:55:51 PM
- 952 Views
we know from a direcet quote in TPoD that Nynaeve had not yet reached full strength
10/12/2010 08:36:50 PM
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Re: we know from a direcet quote in TPoD that Nynaeve had not yet reached full strength
10/12/2010 09:17:48 PM
- 1014 Views
winning in TAR had nothing to do with OP strength... that was pure skill and later Moghedien lost!
11/12/2010 04:14:26 PM
- 968 Views