The Pattern is not a delicate flower, people! When they fought the Shadow the last time they were wiping cities left and right with it and the Pattern still stayed in one piece. If Graendal didn't receive information about Semiharge's escape and the subsequent changes in Rand's group she's not worth a zilch as a master spy. That's the kind of information that's sent ASAP
That's like saying "I drove home drunk last night, and nothing happened to me, so drunk driving is not really dangerous!" That balefire threatens to unravel the Pattern is an established fact. Even the Forsaken are afraid to use it except when desperate. Why do you think Moridin told Rand to use it to destroy the Forsaken?
So they were doing just fine succeeding in their plots left and right until one of the heroes got into the picture and kicked them down. I don't see how mentioning how they were doing it changes anything. Does the fact that Semiharge used horrific torture to milk out of an aes sedai what she knew negates the fact that she DID get the information she wanted out of her? Does it matter that Rhavin used compulsion on Andoran and Aes Sedai to make them do what he wanted changes the fact that lthings were going according to his plans?
Beside if you look back a little to the time there were no convenient heroes to foil their plans the Forsaken succeeded tremendously in doing whatever they wanted and influencing history just like they do now until a hero comes and ruins it for them..
Beside if you look back a little to the time there were no convenient heroes to foil their plans the Forsaken succeeded tremendously in doing whatever they wanted and influencing history just like they do now until a hero comes and ruins it for them..
Again, what schemes? You claim that everyone is a fool, implying they're being outwitted by the Forsaken, who are themselves inept fools. So what schemes? What are you talking about?
Well we know he does. We've seen it countless times in the series. I suspect it (people being tortured mercilessly) fits his idea of how the Pattern should work better. It also discourage other followers from betraying or failing him. They know that nothing can be worse than displeasing him.
No we don't. We've only seen him torture the living. Because it serves as education and an example for both the victim and the other Darkfriends. Again, why torture his followers, and not his enemies?
Nope, except that Graendal would be aware of the changes it wrought in him and therefore would know he would want to use flamboyant and horrible means to get what he wants (balefire an entire mansion to get rid of one enemy or rain fire and destruction on an army that doesn't bow to him)
Wrong. Rand cares absolutely nothing about flamboyance or cruelty. All that matters to him are results.
Meh, the point is she returned from being thrown into another dimension that had its doorway just destroyed after we lirned how tricky and possessive its inhabitants are.
She returned reduced in power and likely Graendal would be the same. Her center of operations was destroyed and her ability to continue to influence the world grows tenuous.
She returned reduced in power and likely Graendal would be the same. Her center of operations was destroyed and her ability to continue to influence the world grows tenuous.
Which isn't relevant. Lanfear did die in an embarrassingly pathetic manner, tackled by a woman not even using the Power while she herself had an angreal. And that was in the mid-series. Not in what RJ thought would be the final book. Sammael has more chances of being reincarnated than Graendal has of surviving.
Verin may be one smartass granny but she's nowhere near us Creator-like observers. We've seen threw the eyes of Legions, We've listened to the secretest of secret conversations, we got the Creator to answer our questions, we've explored and dissected other worlds and creations whenever the fancy struck us. We also weren't limited in our explorations by annoying superiors that told not to look into things that weren't our business or ordered into mandatory ventures that took up all our time and attention. We even had more time to ponder what's it all about than Verin if we count it collectively. So Verin is smart and clever but her failure in no way indicate that we too must fail.
Then suffice it to say that, if you're going to claim yourself as an authority on the subject due to those opportunities, I have the same opportunities you have, and claim that you are wrong.
The first rule of being a ninja is "do no harm". Unless you intend to do harm, then do lots of harm.
~Master Splinter
Victorious in Bergioyn's legendary 'Reverse Mafia'. *MySmiley*
~Master Splinter
Victorious in Bergioyn's legendary 'Reverse Mafia'. *MySmiley*
Graendal
- 11/11/2009 11:02:33 AM
1432 Views
supposely we will revisit the same timeline in TOM, and may get a Graendal POV like this. *NM*
- 11/11/2009 12:10:22 PM
287 Views
I agree. I pointed out the same basic problems with assuming she's dead in another post 
*NM*
- 11/11/2009 02:27:33 PM
331 Views
*NM*
- 11/11/2009 02:27:33 PM
331 Views
She's dead.
- 11/11/2009 06:09:49 PM
620 Views
Or is she?
- 11/11/2009 08:18:34 PM
607 Views
Re: Or is she?
- 11/11/2009 10:16:22 PM
567 Views
Re: Or is she?
- 12/11/2009 10:12:42 AM
634 Views
Re: Or is she?
- 12/11/2009 07:44:05 PM
607 Views
You forgot to mention how badly Ishamael got pwned, too - twice - plus the second time Aginor died. *NM*
- 19/11/2009 12:36:16 AM
232 Views
Didn't RJ say in an interview a while back that no more Forsaken would be coming back?
- 13/11/2009 04:19:01 PM
512 Views
But did she really go away? *NM*
- 13/11/2009 04:28:27 PM
220 Views
Yes, she's gone. Your theory is far fetched to say the least. *NM*
- 13/11/2009 05:05:30 PM
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