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Re: This is a ridiculously idealistic viewpoint... Cannoli Send a noteboard - 11/11/2009 08:35:07 AM
And you seriously believe the Hall and Amyrlin will not interfere in such a circumstance?
Do they have a magic alarm that lets them save the sister's chosen victim? Cna you prove that they will even hear about it? Mistress Anan's picture of White Tower justice suggests strongly that it comes too late to prevent the sisters from harming the normal person. In the first place, who says the Hall would interfere, and who says the Amyrlin would be able to? What passes between a sister and her warder is outside the purview of the Hall when they are standing in the Hall of the Tower itself! What can they really do in the real world? And Egwene herself notes that Aes Sedai find ways to do whatever they want, regardless of their orders.

Do you remember that Aes Sedai, if tried and found guilty by any common magistrate, are not saved by the Tower?
No, I recall no such thing, except it being stated that the Tower keeps its mouth shut when Far Madding punishes sisters, because they can't doing anything about it. I recall absolutely no indication in the books that they respect ANY local authority's power over a sister, and in fact, I can recall Aes Sedai claiming that the local authority has no right to prosecute a sister for being a Darkfriend, but that she must have a special trial in the Tower, which, pre-Verin, made the denial of the Black Ajah an official position!

If Aes Sedai could simply have their Warder attempt to murder whomever they want and then use the OP in his "defense", they wouldn't have to worry about magistrates, and places like Tear and Amadicia would not have existed.
They exist because they don't take any crap from channelers, proving that normals CAN defend themselves from channelers. There is no indication that they accept any other authority on sisters.

While your analysis of the effects of the Oaths is entirely correct, I'm failing to see what is so terribly bad about this. It isn't as if the rulers and the nobles are unaware of these tactics of the Tower!
Nor can I see how two Towers will solve this issue. Both will attempt the same tactics, and the only change will be added confusion for the non-channelers.
And the loss of faith and trust in Aes Sedai among non-channelers. And I sy two Towers is jsut a starting point! My ideal is lots of them - eventually someone will chuck the Oaths. My point is not that the Oaths are all that bad, but that they do not actually restrain the Aes Sedai except to prevent them from overreaching. We don't need the Oaths to protect people from channelers, since they don't actually do that.

Sure, one Tower may support one faction and the other not... but how is that an improvement over the current situation?
Because people have other options now. If Tower A wants you to do one thing, you are pretty much stuck doing it that way, unless Tower B protects you. Quick question - how many times did a superpower invade the Middle East during the Cold War? Never, because the other side would not have put up with it. How long after the fall of the USSR did it take the remaining superpower to send an army in? Russia declared its sovereignty over the USSR in 1990 and we were invading Iraq before one year had passed and even as the political dissolution of the USSR was getting under way. With two Towers, people can use one for protection from the other's interference.

What a load of horseshit! In your painted scenario, all that will happen is that the Channeling group with the greatest knowledge political power will come out on top, intimidate others, and rule with less restrictions than the Tower does today.
Then, according to your principles, there is only one nation in the world? Who is to say any one group could win? Anyway, once the meme of a single worldwide channeling group is replaced with the idea that channelers have more options, it will be much harder for a group to dominate all channelers, thanks to such useful human attributes as selfishness and intransigence.

Even if it boils down to even competition between a few strong organizations, the situation for the common man is in no way better. What is to stop these different organizations (affiliated to different nations, if you will) from believing they are above the law and the common people? They can carry on their conflicts, using the resources of nations, uncaring of the deaths of common people, scheming and fighting to be on top. Exactly what happened in Seanchan, remember?
Different culture and different people, and there were no organizations, merely channelers who ruled on their own with temporary alliances. They had no concept of honor or honesty or fidelity in that culture either. Without some form of morality, no system will work.
I am also not proposing channelers being limited to channeling guilds, or serving rulers or private enterprises. Ideally I want channelers in all three sectors. Organizations and private enterprises and individuals will need to check rulers who get out of hand, the same as they do in the real world, and rulers must protect their people from organizations or outsiders or indivduals who would violate the law.


While there is a lot of hypocrisy and folly in the Tower, a magistrate, in the current way of life, does not need channelers from some group or another to enforce his or her will.
Because he has no hope of enforcing it on channelers. The channelers do what they want. What is wrong with a magistrate having channelers to enforce the law, as long as he does not have ALL the channelers?
Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
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