Active Users:428 Time:05/10/2024 03:51:14 AM
Re: It has, yes, but that doesn't make it realistic. Legolas Send a noteboard - 05/11/2009 02:09:26 PM
The number of woman depicted as having brains who are also in power is not all that small. And that is the subset that we saw.

The Sitters and Ajah heads for the most part are not presented as fools, no, but still you get people like Falene (iirc? the head of the White) taking advice from Egwene, long before the Seanchan strike. And most glaringly, the way Egwene barges in on the Black Ajah Hunters and somehow manages to gain the upper hand.
As for Egwene gaining respect... yes no one would take advise from a normal Accepted. Because a normal Accepted would be too scared to give advise. Egwene might have had the title of Novice, but she never behaved like one. For over a month, the AS tried to drub her down, make her behave like a Novice. But she simply refused, and when they tested to see if this upstart was merely being stubborn or actually had any sense, she showed that she was no baby.

Acknowledging that she has sense and isn't a fool is still a very far cry from accepting her as a leader. Or should be, anyhow.
Add to this her debate with Elaida, Silviana standing up for her, and the Seanchan attack and how she predicted and handled it, it isn't so surprising that these women started respecting her.

The debate of Elaida, along with the Black Ajah Hunters meeting, are the two most problematic scenes, I think. In Elaida's case, the stupidity or even temporary insanity that allows Egwene to make a big impression and become a martyr, and then the way Seaine and the others allow her to barge in on them and discuss what to do as if she were a full sister. Both are way too blatant and easy, and obviously aimed at making Egwene acceptable as Amyrlin so that the plot can move on, at the cost of credibility. I suppose RJ could've done it more subtly, and one might point out that if RJ/Sanderson had taken the time to do it more subtly and more believably, we would've been looking at several slow-moving books more before Egwene finally got where she needed to be, but all the same, it weakens the book (or at least Egwene's scenes) for me.

Incidentally, while we're on the topic: Rand may feel that his ta'veren-ness deserted him when negotiating with Tuon, and rightly so, but if you consider that Egwene got her final and decisive push for Amyrlin from the Seanchan attack, you could argue the Light benefited from the failure of those negotiations.
Huh? Do you remember a certain Black called Katerine amusingly announcing to Egwene that her freedom was ended and that she had to serve in the kitchen from now on?

Certainly, but as far as I'm aware, that and the subsequent imprisonment were all on Elaida's orders, who we know is not Black. One might expect a little more intelligence and smarter moves from the Black Ajah than from Elaida. They could've killed or abducted her, thus not only removing the annoyance inside the Tower but also further diminishing the chances of the two factions reuniting. With the numbers the Black Ajah now turns out to have, you'd think they could've done more than just follow Elaida's orders.
Well they never equated her to Cadsuane. More importantly, they did laugh her off. However, she did not let that deter her at all, and just continued doing her thing, providing sense and leadership when required.

Except that it's not very credible that said leadership *would* be required. And her "sense" may be impressive for an Accepted, but again, enormous step from there to letting her lead you.
They did not listen to her from the first day. It took them more than a month to see her worth.

Oh, a whole month? With the way the Power-based hierarchy among Aes Sedai is described, you'd almost start to doubt whether even a low-ranking sister like, say, Daigian could manage to get all those Sitters listening to her after just a month, no matter how sensible or brave she was. And Egwene isn't a sister.
Why were women like Adelorna useless? Because the Tower has not had to engage multiple channelers in combat since the Trolloc Wars two thousand years ago. And they were divided, providing small pockets of resistance that the Seanchan were easily able to overcome. In places though, women like Saerin and Seaine gathered pockets of resistance that countered the Seanchan well enough.

There was division and strife between the Ajahs, yes, but then that meant that sisters mostly stuck together in their own Ajah quarters, which means they couldn't have been all that divided. Egwene rallied the novices to her and worked with circles; how come the various Ajahs seem to have done nothing of the kind?
As for the wards in the store-rooms mysteriously disappearing, it was a continuity error, I think.

An immensely convenient continuity error.
Reply to message
Egwene... one of the best characters in the series - 30/10/2009 07:45:11 AM 1366 Views
I so agree with you!! - 30/10/2009 08:24:53 AM 641 Views
Re: I so agree with you!! - 31/10/2009 05:28:38 AM 556 Views
I hope I am wrong but - 30/10/2009 08:52:37 AM 780 Views
Re: I hope I am wrong but - 30/10/2009 09:05:29 AM 656 Views
Re: I hope I am wrong but - 30/10/2009 11:38:54 AM 611 Views
Re: Egwene... one of the best characters in the series - AMEN!!!!!!! *NM* - 30/10/2009 01:34:55 PM 310 Views
Agreed *NM* - 31/10/2009 05:29:09 AM 271 Views
Agreed! Screw you Conalli... whatever your name is *NM* - 30/10/2009 04:05:39 PM 333 Views
She's coming off a bit Mary Sue-like, IMO - 30/10/2009 06:48:59 PM 824 Views
Agreed. *NM* - 31/10/2009 06:01:32 PM 276 Views
pompous - 31/10/2009 05:48:13 AM 564 Views
It sorta reminded me.. - 31/10/2009 06:02:22 AM 605 Views
Only two words - Mother Goddess ! - 31/10/2009 09:18:18 AM 561 Views
Well, only recently... - 31/10/2009 11:19:15 AM 664 Views
It was all very impressive, yes. Unfortunately, it was *too* impressive and that makes it hollow. - 31/10/2009 06:16:03 PM 593 Views
Its been heading there, no? - 31/10/2009 10:47:13 PM 573 Views
It has, yes, but that doesn't make it realistic. - 01/11/2009 11:16:19 AM 911 Views
Re: It has, yes, but that doesn't make it realistic. - 05/11/2009 02:01:28 AM 625 Views
Re: It has, yes, but that doesn't make it realistic. - 05/11/2009 02:09:26 PM 652 Views
I agree with most of your post but I have a nitpick - 06/11/2009 02:08:31 AM 526 Views
Re: It has, yes, but that doesn't make it realistic. - 06/11/2009 05:57:12 AM 690 Views

Reply to Message