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I too wondered when exactly Elaida took an overdose of crazy pills Asha'man Send a noteboard - 01/11/2009 06:46:16 AM
Actually, I don't agree with any of it, not with the specific points you make - my problems lie elsewhere, though I'm sure you'll have thought along those lines as well.

My main problem with Egwene's storyline in tGS, actually, more than anything else, is that the reduction of Aes Sedai from demi-goddesses in EotW to ordinary human beings in the recent books, is taken to a whole new level here, with almost all of them reduced to squabbling grade schoolers who need Egwene to lead them by the hand and teach them. Elaida was an egocentric and cold woman at first, but she was not a doddering imbecile as in this book. The infamous supper scene in front of the five Sitters was, I will admit, quite fun to read, as I and I dare say many other readers have waited for Elaida to get put in her place for quite a while. But it was exaggeratedly hagiographic towards Egwene, as most of her storyline is - some of the inverted classes in which Egwene teaches women up to five, six times her age or more what to do are particularly bad in this respect (including one with not just one, but three AS, one of them Sitter *and* Head of the White Ajah...). Perhaps it's just that having the Tower AS raise her Amyrlin as well is so unbelievable a plot point, that any attempt to get there would've felt stretched. Perhaps another way could've been found that was better. Or perhaps RJ should've just admitted from the start that Egwene is apparently ta'veren (which incidentally is one notable thing that Sanderson seems to do much less subtly than RJ did it, as seen with Ituralde and Tuon, and one could argue also with Verin).


My re-read stopped at TSR, so I don't recall the middle books with clarity, but I suppose Elaida's megalomania has really been brewing since her ascension to the Amyrlin Seat. And then grown exponentially after (or during - can't remember!) KoD and before TGS.

And while it was immensely funny, and not to mention somewhat satisfying, a part of me yearns for serene Moiraine, ironclad Elaida, and their like! :disapprove:


The Seanchan attack specifically didn't bother me that much - Egwene is not so foolish as to consider her achievements a great victory, nor does she fail to realize what has happened, and that the Seanchan raid will not be seen as a failure. Here, too, the reactions and hero-worship of other AS who really should know better bother me more than her taking the lead. Adelorna, head of the supposed Battle Ajah, seems to be content following her around like a puppy instead of doing something useful.

As for your central point in comparing this to Rand's battle in tPoD, it has been a while since I read tPoD, but as I recall it, *he* is the main one to consider it a failure. The Seanchans from their end state that they've suffered a crushing defeat, and as far as I can recall, Rand's generals correctly think that he's done about as well as might've been expected. The only one that keeps complaining about the failure is Rand himself - it doesn't necessarily follow that the author agrees with that assessment.
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Well Brandon Sanderson has officially killed off the last volume of the Epic Saga of the Chosen One. - 30/10/2009 02:36:19 AM 2539 Views
Life in unfair, just let Egwene have it already. - 30/10/2009 03:11:04 AM 930 Views
I skimmed cannoli's predictable rant. I disagree. I LOVED EVERY CHAPTER! - 30/10/2009 03:29:24 AM 901 Views
Agreed! *NM* - 30/10/2009 03:47:52 AM 540 Views
I liked her chapters. Mainly because they gave her something to do. - 30/10/2009 09:43:58 PM 810 Views
I adore Brandon Sanderson. - 30/10/2009 05:05:11 AM 914 Views
Me too - 30/10/2009 10:38:52 AM 970 Views
Exactly. - 30/10/2009 04:33:11 PM 815 Views
Re: I adore Brandon Sanderson. - 30/10/2009 02:45:03 PM 994 Views
Re: I adore Brandon Sanderson. - 30/10/2009 04:34:53 PM 845 Views
I think he meant Cannoli, not you, Seriana. *NM* - 30/10/2009 05:30:17 PM 471 Views
Ahhh. - 30/10/2009 09:15:14 PM 822 Views
Re: Ahhh. - 31/10/2009 03:51:14 AM 815 Views
Re: Ahhh. - 01/11/2009 06:37:41 AM 847 Views
Ditto. Thought he was a breath of fresh air to the series. - 30/10/2009 03:27:43 PM 798 Views
If renewal means someone grossly unfamiliar with the series, sure. - 30/10/2009 06:26:19 PM 1325 Views
Everything up to tGS - 30/10/2009 06:25:28 PM 1028 Views
Re: Everything up to tGS - 30/10/2009 08:21:33 PM 1010 Views
What on earth makes you think I dislike it? - 31/10/2009 05:25:07 AM 918 Views
General impression lately I guess. - 31/10/2009 04:38:29 PM 823 Views
Re: General impression lately I guess. - 31/10/2009 10:41:06 PM 852 Views
Thanks. - 01/11/2009 06:32:12 AM 937 Views
double post, hate my computer. - 30/10/2009 08:24:12 PM 922 Views
Don't agree completely but what I do want to see is - 30/10/2009 07:12:54 AM 803 Views
so I guess ... - 30/10/2009 02:48:10 PM 1023 Views
You want a friend like Mat - 30/10/2009 06:33:47 PM 816 Views
might I add.. - 30/10/2009 08:30:24 AM 771 Views
Re: might I add.. - 30/10/2009 10:41:39 AM 872 Views
Re: might I add.. - 30/10/2009 06:47:17 PM 882 Views
There is a difference between defending your home from attack - 31/10/2009 03:34:57 PM 802 Views
I sit somewhere in the middle, she's improved, but still many flaws - 30/10/2009 11:35:47 AM 875 Views
Like others don't have flaws? - 30/10/2009 02:58:08 PM 864 Views
EVERYTHING is handed to her on a platter! - 30/10/2009 06:41:02 PM 897 Views
Touched a nerve did I? - 30/10/2009 07:19:00 PM 990 Views
Re: Touched a nerve did I? - 30/10/2009 07:24:41 PM 903 Views
Re: Touched a nerve did I? - 30/10/2009 07:31:14 PM 963 Views
Re: Touched a nerve did I? - 31/10/2009 06:36:33 AM 825 Views
Re: Touched a nerve did I? - 31/10/2009 09:33:34 AM 865 Views
And you aren't? - 01/11/2009 12:42:50 AM 815 Views
Seems to me you're both right. - 01/11/2009 07:45:12 PM 811 Views
Bah - 30/10/2009 03:36:42 PM 891 Views
wait a sec... - 30/10/2009 04:31:56 PM 967 Views
Now now! Let's take off the rose-tinted glasses for a minute. - 30/10/2009 05:21:07 PM 791 Views
Re: Bah - 30/10/2009 06:49:47 PM 931 Views
Rant on! Rant on! - 30/10/2009 12:54:16 PM 772 Views
Re: Rant on! Rant on! - 30/10/2009 03:18:44 PM 829 Views
A personal question: Cannoli, are you threatened by a powerful woman? - 30/10/2009 07:13:30 PM 915 Views
Obviously. - 31/10/2009 05:37:52 AM 785 Views
Well... - 31/10/2009 05:56:56 AM 741 Views
Countries are real, normal and natural things. The White Tower has no proven value. - 31/10/2009 06:52:48 AM 842 Views
Tar Valon is a nation - 31/10/2009 09:20:43 AM 817 Views
The "Elaida's election was illegal because of Black Ajah Sitters" is really an absurd argument - 01/11/2009 12:06:32 AM 913 Views
It wasn't absurd. Just clever... - 01/11/2009 03:33:22 AM 919 Views
I wasn't saying the rebels had no cause for rebellion. Just that the election *was* legal. - 01/11/2009 10:38:59 AM 911 Views
Hmm..... - 06/11/2009 04:18:14 PM 758 Views
I take it she'll carefully avoid bringing up the war vote, then. *NM* - 08/11/2009 12:47:21 AM 356 Views
Not a problem... - 08/11/2009 06:17:39 AM 841 Views
Are you blinded by a pair of teats? - 31/10/2009 07:17:44 AM 987 Views
Re: Well Brandon Sanderson has officially killed off the last volume of the Epic Saga of the Chosen - 30/10/2009 11:38:24 PM 919 Views
The harbor chain incident was no less stupid because it helped her - 31/10/2009 05:40:20 AM 772 Views
It must be embarassing to be on the same side as such dingbats. - 31/10/2009 07:18:42 AM 916 Views
*snort* *NM* - 31/10/2009 07:19:49 AM 470 Views
Re: It must be embarassing to be on the same side as such dingbats. - 31/10/2009 09:28:16 AM 887 Views
Don't expect rationality from Cannoli... - 31/10/2009 02:01:45 PM 951 Views
Or logical trains of thought from fionwe1987.... - 01/11/2009 01:07:06 AM 931 Views
Re: Or logical trains of thought from fionwe1987.... - 01/11/2009 04:30:21 AM 916 Views
Re: Or logical trains of thought from fionwe1987.... - 01/11/2009 08:41:58 AM 891 Views
Re: Or logical trains of thought from fionwe1987.... - 05/11/2009 02:40:16 AM 856 Views
Re: It must be embarassing to be on the same side as such dingbats. - 01/11/2009 12:31:10 AM 827 Views
I have one question - 01/11/2009 07:12:23 AM 869 Views
Capture, NOT kill, and she herself said the sa'angreal made that impossible. - 01/11/2009 07:59:44 AM 849 Views
Capture OR kill - 01/11/2009 09:12:08 AM 903 Views
Egwene isn't ta'veren - 31/10/2009 05:57:54 AM 774 Views
Re: Egwene isn't ta'veren - 31/10/2009 11:01:54 AM 792 Views
Events do seem to suggest otherwise. *NM* - 31/10/2009 04:40:42 PM 496 Views
I don't agree with all of that, but yes, Egwene's successes are a little too much. - 31/10/2009 04:30:32 PM 915 Views
I too wondered when exactly Elaida took an overdose of crazy pills - 01/11/2009 06:46:16 AM 938 Views
I see Cannoll is still going strong about Egwene... - 01/11/2009 08:40:17 PM 860 Views
There were a few instances in the book where Egwene really bothered me. - 02/11/2009 12:54:10 AM 813 Views
Egwene's always been a hypocrite - 02/11/2009 02:06:58 PM 992 Views

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