Active Users:553 Time:05/04/2025 09:33:17 AM
The Aes Sedai are not. The Tower as a whole rules the polity of Tar Valon. Cannoli Send a noteboard - 31/10/2009 11:34:42 PM
The Amyrlin Seat is the ruler of Tar Valon, which is an established nation with lands and claims.
And I would be just fine with anything within that limitation. No one is fighting over rulership of the island and its surrounding lands, and I have no doubt that either Egwene or Elaida (assuming either was thinking rationally) would concede to the other absolute queenship over those lands in exchange for being acknowledged as the Amyrlin with her authority limited to Aes Sedai and the Tower and its grounds. Of course, that would not stop Elaida from trying to immediately win back those lands and title from Queen Egwene (though I believe Egwene would leave Queen Elaida alone). Rulership of Tar Valon is just a sideline for the Tower and the Amyrlin, while it is the raison d'etre of a real government of a nation. The difference between the two is like the difference between a homeowner and a business that owns the premises out of which it is based. For the latter, property ownership is a sideline and a means to an end, while for the former, it is the end in itself. If the Tar Valon and all the lands the Tower currently rules were suddenly sunk beneath an inland sea and all the non-channeling inhabitants transported to another nation, the Aes Sedai would regard it as a nuisance or an encumbrance, but they would not say the Tower was gone, or that they were no longer organized or anything. Tar Valon means no more to the Tower than a corporate headquarters means to a company. Both still exist without the physical location. A nation of people can still exist if they no longer have land (such as the Tinkers or Jews), but they are not a state any longer.

Egwene's battle is the same as Elayne's contest with her fellow nobles for the leadership. As an Aes Sedai, Egwene has the right to fight for the Amyrlin Seat.
No, she does not, since the Tower law does not acknowledge this, anymore than a mail clerk has the right to hire a group of mercenaries, seize the executive suite and call himself the CEO.

Egwene is as legitimate as Elaida. Elaida was raised by Sitters, some of whom were from the Black Ajah. This makes the vote invalid and illegal.
Do the names, Delana, Moria & Sheriam mean anything to you? In any event, Egwene was not raised by Sitters. She was raised by a pack of cranks in a village. If her election was legitimate, then Rand could choose out 21 sisters sworn to him, call them the Hall of the Tower, and have them raise Alivia as Amyrlin. She would be EVEN MORE legitimate than Egwene, since her Hall truly represented all the Ajahs. No more than a third of the sisters selected Egwene's Hall, so they cannot claim to truly represent the Tower.

Egwene is also not a rebel - she was an Accepted in the Waste before being summoned by the Hall of the Tower in Salidar. You can even say that she is not a rebel because she is a registered Novice in the White Tower at the moment.
Then Luke Skywalker and Han Solo were not rebels, either, since they were not there at the beginning, and were no doubt on the census as citizens of the Galactic Empire. As soon as she accepted the rebellion, Egwene became a rebel. True, she did not have a choice about accepting the summons, as an Accepted could not disobey sisters (though we then have the issue of her behavior in Cairhien - even a rebel Accepted should not have been evading the sisters with the embassy. If they wanted to drag her back to Elaida, it is her duty to go every bit as much as it was to obey a summons of sisters to Salidar), but once they claimed she was the Amyrlin, she is not constrained from returning to the fold. The minute she opened that first gateway in her study, she was a rebel, because she did not go to the real Tower as her duty required.

Egwene has the right to the Amyrlin Seat as much as Elayne has the right to the Lion Throne (not Sun Throne). All Aes Sedai have that right, they merely need to go through the steps and once the Hall raises them, they are legitimate. Egwene was raised without the consent of the Red Ajah which makes her an illegal Amyrlin, and Elaida was raised without the Blue and with the presence of the Black. Either Amyrlin is acceptable and thus the contest was inevitable.
Elaida is legitimate because the Blue were legally excluded from the sitting that elected her. Absolutely no one, include Anaiya, who was cited as the most anti-Elaida rebel, denied her legitimacy. Can you really think that Anaiya would miss the fact that Elaida had no Blues in the sitting where she was raised if that detail had any significance? She could not call Elaida the Amyrlin unless she believed it to be true. You could argue that the Sitters in the Tower, including the one who had proposed Siuan in the first place, and admits she would not have supported deposing her, were just ignoring the technicality. You could argue that Elaida was in denial when she claimed that she got the Amyrlin Seat by making use of a loophole in the law, and that she actually broke it. You could argue that Cadsuane does not know all the facts when she states that Elaida is the rightful Amyrlin. But you cannot argue that even the Salidar rebels would blind themselves to any lawful argument against her rule!
Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
Reply to message
Well Brandon Sanderson has officially killed off the last volume of the Epic Saga of the Chosen One. - 30/10/2009 02:36:19 AM 2541 Views
Life in unfair, just let Egwene have it already. - 30/10/2009 03:11:04 AM 930 Views
I skimmed cannoli's predictable rant. I disagree. I LOVED EVERY CHAPTER! - 30/10/2009 03:29:24 AM 903 Views
Agreed! *NM* - 30/10/2009 03:47:52 AM 541 Views
I liked her chapters. Mainly because they gave her something to do. - 30/10/2009 09:43:58 PM 813 Views
I adore Brandon Sanderson. - 30/10/2009 05:05:11 AM 915 Views
Me too - 30/10/2009 10:38:52 AM 973 Views
Exactly. - 30/10/2009 04:33:11 PM 815 Views
Re: I adore Brandon Sanderson. - 30/10/2009 02:45:03 PM 996 Views
Re: I adore Brandon Sanderson. - 30/10/2009 04:34:53 PM 847 Views
I think he meant Cannoli, not you, Seriana. *NM* - 30/10/2009 05:30:17 PM 472 Views
Ahhh. - 30/10/2009 09:15:14 PM 823 Views
Re: Ahhh. - 31/10/2009 03:51:14 AM 817 Views
Re: Ahhh. - 01/11/2009 06:37:41 AM 848 Views
Ditto. Thought he was a breath of fresh air to the series. - 30/10/2009 03:27:43 PM 800 Views
If renewal means someone grossly unfamiliar with the series, sure. - 30/10/2009 06:26:19 PM 1327 Views
Everything up to tGS - 30/10/2009 06:25:28 PM 1029 Views
Re: Everything up to tGS - 30/10/2009 08:21:33 PM 1011 Views
What on earth makes you think I dislike it? - 31/10/2009 05:25:07 AM 920 Views
General impression lately I guess. - 31/10/2009 04:38:29 PM 825 Views
Re: General impression lately I guess. - 31/10/2009 10:41:06 PM 854 Views
Thanks. - 01/11/2009 06:32:12 AM 937 Views
double post, hate my computer. - 30/10/2009 08:24:12 PM 925 Views
Don't agree completely but what I do want to see is - 30/10/2009 07:12:54 AM 805 Views
so I guess ... - 30/10/2009 02:48:10 PM 1025 Views
You want a friend like Mat - 30/10/2009 06:33:47 PM 819 Views
might I add.. - 30/10/2009 08:30:24 AM 771 Views
Re: might I add.. - 30/10/2009 10:41:39 AM 873 Views
Re: might I add.. - 30/10/2009 06:47:17 PM 885 Views
There is a difference between defending your home from attack - 31/10/2009 03:34:57 PM 802 Views
I sit somewhere in the middle, she's improved, but still many flaws - 30/10/2009 11:35:47 AM 877 Views
Like others don't have flaws? - 30/10/2009 02:58:08 PM 866 Views
EVERYTHING is handed to her on a platter! - 30/10/2009 06:41:02 PM 899 Views
Touched a nerve did I? - 30/10/2009 07:19:00 PM 992 Views
Re: Touched a nerve did I? - 30/10/2009 07:24:41 PM 906 Views
Re: Touched a nerve did I? - 30/10/2009 07:31:14 PM 965 Views
Re: Touched a nerve did I? - 31/10/2009 06:36:33 AM 827 Views
Re: Touched a nerve did I? - 31/10/2009 09:33:34 AM 869 Views
And you aren't? - 01/11/2009 12:42:50 AM 815 Views
Seems to me you're both right. - 01/11/2009 07:45:12 PM 811 Views
Bah - 30/10/2009 03:36:42 PM 892 Views
wait a sec... - 30/10/2009 04:31:56 PM 968 Views
Now now! Let's take off the rose-tinted glasses for a minute. - 30/10/2009 05:21:07 PM 794 Views
Re: Bah - 30/10/2009 06:49:47 PM 933 Views
Rant on! Rant on! - 30/10/2009 12:54:16 PM 774 Views
Re: Rant on! Rant on! - 30/10/2009 03:18:44 PM 831 Views
A personal question: Cannoli, are you threatened by a powerful woman? - 30/10/2009 07:13:30 PM 918 Views
Obviously. - 31/10/2009 05:37:52 AM 787 Views
Well... - 31/10/2009 05:56:56 AM 741 Views
Countries are real, normal and natural things. The White Tower has no proven value. - 31/10/2009 06:52:48 AM 844 Views
Tar Valon is a nation - 31/10/2009 09:20:43 AM 820 Views
The Aes Sedai are not. The Tower as a whole rules the polity of Tar Valon. - 31/10/2009 11:34:42 PM 928 Views
The "Elaida's election was illegal because of Black Ajah Sitters" is really an absurd argument - 01/11/2009 12:06:32 AM 914 Views
It wasn't absurd. Just clever... - 01/11/2009 03:33:22 AM 921 Views
I wasn't saying the rebels had no cause for rebellion. Just that the election *was* legal. - 01/11/2009 10:38:59 AM 914 Views
Hmm..... - 06/11/2009 04:18:14 PM 759 Views
I take it she'll carefully avoid bringing up the war vote, then. *NM* - 08/11/2009 12:47:21 AM 357 Views
Not a problem... - 08/11/2009 06:17:39 AM 843 Views
Are you blinded by a pair of teats? - 31/10/2009 07:17:44 AM 989 Views
Re: Well Brandon Sanderson has officially killed off the last volume of the Epic Saga of the Chosen - 30/10/2009 11:38:24 PM 920 Views
The harbor chain incident was no less stupid because it helped her - 31/10/2009 05:40:20 AM 775 Views
It must be embarassing to be on the same side as such dingbats. - 31/10/2009 07:18:42 AM 919 Views
*snort* *NM* - 31/10/2009 07:19:49 AM 471 Views
Re: It must be embarassing to be on the same side as such dingbats. - 31/10/2009 09:28:16 AM 889 Views
Don't expect rationality from Cannoli... - 31/10/2009 02:01:45 PM 953 Views
Or logical trains of thought from fionwe1987.... - 01/11/2009 01:07:06 AM 932 Views
Re: Or logical trains of thought from fionwe1987.... - 01/11/2009 04:30:21 AM 918 Views
Re: Or logical trains of thought from fionwe1987.... - 01/11/2009 08:41:58 AM 893 Views
Re: Or logical trains of thought from fionwe1987.... - 05/11/2009 02:40:16 AM 858 Views
Re: It must be embarassing to be on the same side as such dingbats. - 01/11/2009 12:31:10 AM 828 Views
I have one question - 01/11/2009 07:12:23 AM 870 Views
Capture, NOT kill, and she herself said the sa'angreal made that impossible. - 01/11/2009 07:59:44 AM 851 Views
Capture OR kill - 01/11/2009 09:12:08 AM 905 Views
Egwene isn't ta'veren - 31/10/2009 05:57:54 AM 776 Views
Re: Egwene isn't ta'veren - 31/10/2009 11:01:54 AM 795 Views
Events do seem to suggest otherwise. *NM* - 31/10/2009 04:40:42 PM 497 Views
I see Cannoll is still going strong about Egwene... - 01/11/2009 08:40:17 PM 860 Views
There were a few instances in the book where Egwene really bothered me. - 02/11/2009 12:54:10 AM 815 Views
Egwene's always been a hypocrite - 02/11/2009 02:06:58 PM 992 Views

Reply to Message