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Discovering wotmania Cannoli Send a noteboard - 29/11/2016 03:45:48 AM

Seriously, that opened up a whole new way to look at the series for me. Finding out that there were other people who thought about it in the same way, with whom I could discuss the books and compare notes, made it so much more possible for me to enjoy the series in other ways. It allowed me to exponentially increase my involvement beyond simply re-reading the books over and over again. It gave me reasons to re-read those books, because so many stupid readers were giving voice to incorrect opinions that my natural sense of charity and justice impelling me to correct them, also required that I make assurance double sure that I was right. The wotmania community gave me the push back I needed to flex my wot-muscles and perfect my knowledge and understanding of the series. "Cannoli" was born on wotmania, and being him has been the most fun and enjoyment I've ever had with any book or series of books whatsoever.


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Looking for something specific (can be multiple things), so not like the "Last Battle" or "Dumai's Well". For me:
  1. The eerie'ness of the Fades in EotW. That feeling of the first time Rand saw the Fades really hooked me on the series.

  2. Ashamen making people explode at Dumai's Well.....just a wow factor to that!

  3. Rand making the Aes Sedai kneel and vow loyalty to him.

Those scenes always seem to stick in my mind.


Pertaining to stuff in the books, I just want to get right out and say that Egwene dying was NOT a favorite moment. I mean I enjoyed it, but it was hardly some essential and fundamental fulfillment of my reading experience. That said, here are a few, of varying scope and importance, in no particular order, which really engaged me for some reason:

  • Moiraine's story of Manetheren, and subsequent revelations about their story in that book, especially the implied stuff about the connection to Shadar Logoth, like Aridhol was the Anakin to Manetheren's Obi Wan.

Seriously, if someone had told sixteen year old me that someday one of the Two Rivers people would come very close to resurrecting Mantheren, only to give away the Red Eagle to rescue his wife, I might have thrown the book at him and temporarily foregone the series forever until I cooled down.

  • The implied stuff about the Borderlands, specifically the whole holding-the-line part, and the idea of an eternal battle that was pretty much all about delaying their inevitable retreat until Armageddon.

  • I liked the Andoran monarchial inheritance system, letting the chicks do the bullshit (at least once it became clear that it was not some feminist gynarchy, as I inferred from reading the glossary entry for Andor before Rand got to Caemlyn), while the sons & brothers would get to go on being badasses. If ever there was a role utterly wasted on an unworthy character...

  • I sort of liked the idea of the White Tower when it was first introduced, but I liked it less and less the more I learned of it. I first had the idea it was a much smaller group, maybe a couple dozen women who worked closely together and were more aligned for a benevolent purpose, rather than simply a political entity.

  • In hindsight, by the time I got to the middle books, I really liked Rand's sojourn alone in tGH. I didn't at the time, but by the point where it seemed like all he did was hold meetings, I kind of relished that point where he was just having an adventure, although somewhat more competent than he was in his solo trek in the first book.

  • The Darkfriend social, where we were introduced to Bors, was spectacular.

  • Elayne slapping Egwene. How often does a character in a book have EXACTLY the kind of response to another's bullshit that you want to see? Not long before reading WoT, I read the Prydain Chronicles by Lloyd Alexander, and the Belgariad by David Eddings. If someone had at that time voiced the typical modern complaint about the lack of female characters in Tolkien, I would, at that point, have retorted that it was the best feature of his books. After Ce Nedra, Eilonwy and now Egwene (and even the juvenile PoV-trap influenced view of Nynaeve), I was kind of resigned to the female characters all being these shrill useless harpies, who never got called on their crap, were allowed to say whatever they wanted to put the hero down, and were only heroes by virtue of authorial mandate, often with the writer creating situations and circumstances in which their particular natures and "talents" could shine, rather than have them display universally applicable virtues. The fact that I would forgive Jordan for doing the same thing on a far greater scale for his pet shrew, and embrace the series anyway, probably has a lot to do with this one particular scene tossed out as a bone to sensible and long-suffering readers.

  • The narrative momentum building to the climax in tDR, with all the characters converging in Tear, leading to the sense that they were all going to come together in some sort of plot-Voltron. It didn't happen, but I really tore through the last half of the book, due to the way it mounted. I got a similar reaction when Bayle Domon accosted Mat in Ebou Dar.

  • Rand's "sacrificial" arc in tGH, from having the concepts explained to him, to learning about leadership responsibilities through practice, down to confronting Ingtar's confession & restitution, leading up to his words and final gambit against Baalzamon above Falme.

  • The glass columns episode in Rhuidean in tSR

  • the rallying of the Two Rivers in tSR, much moreso than Perrin's actual character arc in that book. Much of Perrin's character arcs throughout the series consisted of him slowly catching up to the point the readers were impatiently ready for him to be.

  • Rand fighting & capturing Asmodean, and the subsequent incident with Lanfear

  • the battles at Cairhien (tFoH) and in Altara (tPoD); I especially liked the ground-level views of the fight, and the way Rand, despite his nominal leadership was so isolated and removed from the same. I liked the misery and sense of a grinding slog the story evoked, and how it made the subsequent results feel earned.

  • Mat's rise as a general, from the hints of the Eelfin's gift to his talk with Lan before the battle, the moreso for being largely behind the scenes, and focused more on how Mat dealt with it, than on the "power" facilitating scenes of kickassery

  • Nynaeve's incongruous comments ("'Go away, we don't want your help,' she told him politely." ), and Mat's exasperated perspective on characters whom we otherwise mostly viewed inside their own heads. ("Either one would climb a tree to see the lightning better." ) Also Nynaeve singlehandedly redeeming Rand's confrontation with his three love interests from a scene of excruciating stupidity and plot-mandated bullshit, to a hilarious lampshading of one of the most nonsensical things in the series.

  • Everything Perrin did in tFoH

  • Nynaeve scamming Lan in KoD

  • Everything with Pedron Niall

  • Galad confronting Valda

  • Elayne, Aviendha & Birgitte holding the gateway against the Seanchan

  • Birgitte & Mat bonding on Swovan Night (hell, just about everything Birgitte had to say or do before she got a formal job and a rank and inserted her head firmly up her own ass)

  • Dumai's Wells. It's Dumai's Wells, people. If you read the books, you don't have to explain. You just have to say "Dumai's Wells."

Fun anecdote: my brother showed me Shakira's "Whenever, wherever" video under the suspicious excuse that there was a visual effect that reminded him of Dumai's Wells. There's a reason that video make Shakira famous, but the WoT concept it mostly closely resembles is the tiganza or sa'sara, not any particular battle. But saying "Dumai's Wells" is all a WoT fan needs to do to escape charges of being a creepy pervert, because it is a self-justifying bit of awesome.

  • Rand announcing he was going to Cleanse saidin. The Cleansing itself I found to be more of a "finally" moment, as with a lot of things that readers had been anticipating for several books by the time the happened (Egwene being raised Amyrlin was another, and so was Moiraine's rescue by the time amyloidosis and Sanderson did their part in extending the time between Thom's letter being revealed and finally getting to read about the event itself). I also liked seeing other characters realize it's going down, but that was a mistake in hindsight. In addition to messing up the timelines and kinking the plots, it also failed to give us the important reactions: for instance, what was the reaction at either Tower, especially the Black? When did they realize saidin had been, or was in the process of being, Cleansed? How did their families and so forth take it? What was the reaction of Taim & his clique? And actually, cutting to the rebel Tower days after the fact proved we didn't need to be there at the moment when Elayne & the other ta'veren learned it was going on. There was also very little reaction given to the more important revelation of the results of the Cleansing. It might have been better for RJ to jump ahead on the characters' personal timelines to more interesting moments, and have them simply recall the day of the Cleansing, as in Egwene's story. That could have allowed more time later for the reaction of the Cleansing, which IMO, would have been a much more interesting bit of characterization: quite aside from the varying personal levels of investment in Rand's fate, the taint on saidin has been a dominant fact of these people's environment for their whole lives and all of living memory and recorded history. Learning that it no longer is, should have been worth something, even if merely an example of how game-changers often pass unnoticed to people living with them. The best we got was Perrin's skepticism of Grady's claim, muted under his preoccupation with Faile's rescue as were so many other things that popped up in those last three RJ books in Perrin's story (e.g. Tam learning about Rand).

  • Mat's brief arc between reuniting with Talmanes & the band (another "finally" ), and his wedding being completed (ditto). In one of her stopped-clock moments of making sense, Leigh Butler, of the Tor.com re-read, spoke at some length of the fun of moments of revelation, where other characters are made to see a protagonist as something special. Mat's campaign, this time with an army of his choice and design, in a battle he decided on ahead of time, was in essence, the culmination of his military arc, and the observations & reactions of the various Seanchan characters, for once made a character's moment of success obvious, rather than buried in the PoV trap. For a character with so much badass potential, Mat ends up taking a lot of pratfalls, and it was nice to see him not only get a clear win, but get credit for it as well. Also, it was cool in its own right, unlike just about all of Egwene's little victories.

  • The Matrix. Because when Morpheus explained what the Matrix was to Neo, and more importantly, how in the Matrix, you can exceed the physical limitations of reality by accepting that it is not physically real, my first thought was "Oh, Tel'Aran'Rhiod."

  • Elayne's bath and Faile washing silk, becausefuck all you whiners!Grow a fucking attention span already.

Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
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I'll add a nod to Sanderson in addition to my other favorites - 01/12/2016 09:55:50 PM 942 Views
Re: Just wondering - what was your favorite moment of WOT? - 02/12/2016 01:59:02 AM 785 Views
Mat, Mat... and also Mat - 06/12/2016 09:22:22 PM 697 Views

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