I think Fionwe might be right on this one, if I've read the debate correctly.
It seems like all shields are the same in the series. Lanfear calls a shield a shield, and if there is any weave that passed down through the ages it would be that. Shields are always described in the same way - if they are very strong then the person describes them as a glass wall, and if they are weaker they bend.
The quote with Liandrin/Moghedien clearly represents the knot. The fact that Liandrin can identify it as a shield implies that shields are the same. We have seen Nynaeve unable to decipher what Moghedien is weaving as a counter example. We've also seen SH remove the Source from the FS, and they know it's not shielding.
I'm not really disputing this. I've been theorizing some options about the potential effectiveness of Shielding and why it is seemingly easier to Shield a woman than a man. In regards to the comment above, I'd argue that we've only really seen a handful of examples:
- Shield that have failed.
a. Verin's shield for Graendal, described as rebounded, clearly this is a shield that is neither strong enough nor sharp enough to cut through Graendal's connection. Conclusion: not enough information to tell how the actual weave was built, but it's a safe assumption that Verin used a traditional Aes Sedai Shielding method
b. Alanna and Verin's attempt to shield Rand. Basically the same as above
c. Nynaeve's attempt to shield Elayne. Described as akin to a sledge hammer coming down on an anvil or something along those lines. No reason to assume there was anything outside of the norm for general Aes Sedai Shielding.
- Shields that landed
a. Moghedien's shield on Liandrin. No description of the actual shield or weave itself. As you mention below the focus here is on the knot Moghedien uses. I'm theorizing that Moghedien could have also have used a different weaving for shielding than Aes Sedai used, because the Forsaken have vastly more knowledge and she was convinced that only another of the Forsaken could remove her shield. This strikes me as important because we know she's already aware of channelers of significant strength in the modern day and she is aware that Aes Sedai can link and therefore become strong enough to shatter any shield she could build, unless, of course she used a different weave that maybe is less susceptible to being overcome by mere strength alone. This doesn't seem far fetched to me because we've seen plenty of things that have multiple weaves (that have a variety of effectiveness levels): Healing, Traveling, Fireballs, Weather ... in fact it seems rather more far fetched to me that Shielding from the AoL would be the same as modern Aes Sedai considering that there is an entire Ajah dedicated to Healing and they only managed to save the most basic forms of the ability.
Well, given that any idiot would be able to understand that she had been shielded, how else would Liandrin or the others identify what had been done to her?
Tied off weaves are obviously a different conversation since they are inherently more "at risk" for being escaped and a skilled channeler would clearly be more likely to figure out how to unravel a knot. Again, that has nothing to do with the Weave itself.
No one is arguing this.
You are hitting on my entire point here. I believe that there are more effective ways to shield a significantly stronger channeler than yourself, just like there are multiple Healing weaves that are more effective than others and more than one weave for Traveling (Aviendha learned that the hard way because she now suffers from the second weave rule with Traveling). The point I've been making to Fionwe is that it's very possible Lanfear and Graendal both used more effective Shielding techniques to block and hold significantly stronger (in raw terms) males.
I've been theorizing that the Red Ajah probably discovered a form of Shielding that was effective for Shielding men, as long as there were groups of women available and in typical Aes Sedai fashion decided that was the best way to deal with any channeler. Thus we have Aes Sedai shields that are clearly only effective at holding weaker channelers. now we look at Berowin, who with a mere dribble of OP can shield a Forsaken level woman without any kind of effort and we clearly see that she's come up with a different weave that is flexible, when all other shields we've seen are rigid. Makes you wonder if that's more akin to what Lanfear did to Asmodean. It would explain a bit of how he could have a shield on him that allowed a dribble of power but still prevent him from simply shattering the shield or unravelling a knot. A flexible shield with a tiny hole would require more effort to rip apart that something rigid with a crack already in it. Basically instead of being able to chip away at the crack and make it bigger with each successive attempt, Asmodean would be stuck with a shield that constantly restricted back to it's original form so each time he accessed the OP he'd be starting from zero.
Again, no argument here. Personally I think Rand would simply be able to overwhelm a traditional shield placed on him by any single female channeler based on sheer strength. However, we have no concept of how effective Berowyn's technique would be when tied off.
I'm not sure why you think this comparable to partially hiding one's ability. But ultimately I don't disagree with this POV. But I do believe Lanfear's shield is an example of there clearly being multiple ways to weave effective shields and that these methods were lost post Breaking.
I think there are more than 2 as we've seen at least 3
- Traditional Aes Sedai shield
- Lanfear's shield on Asmodean
- Berowyn's technique
I think the point you make about sharpening edges is simply about severing not truly about shielding (or not only anyway) ... In fact we've seen other ways to sever individuals as well, just look at how Rand severed the women at Dumai's Wells and we know he crushed them with fists of power rather than sliced them with knife sharp flows.