Active Users:1220 Time:19/12/2024 08:07:55 AM
Re: Okay... Cannoli Send a noteboard - 02/01/2016 12:55:37 PM

Where? I've made about three posts in this whole chain and it's about the Egwene issue. When must I let it lie... why can't we argue about it?

I never said we can't. I'm not the one asking why you bother. I have been asked in past why I bother doing the same thing with fionwe1987. But I don't turn around and go, "yes, he's stupid or stubborn." I appreciate those qualities to an extent, because, as you said, it keeps things going. From my perspective, he is the one who ignores facts and quotes, and is selective.

Yes your position is extreme, and I agree that it's harmless. However, if it's extreme then by definition you're biased

Extreme is not inherently wrong, and I don't believe it is extreme, except in consistency. I was stipulating extremism for the sake of argument.
and show a general trend of injustice when someone tries to show you something redeeming about her.
I don't agree that those things are redeeming. Usually such examples have self-serving aspects, or are in service to an unjust end. I wouldn't go so far as to say that she is so thoroughly capable of wrongdoing that anything else is impossible for her, rather I expect her to adhere to the same moral rules as anyone else. Therefore, examples of times when she refrained from active wrongdoing simply do not mitigate or cancel out other things she does that are wrong. For instance, overriding Siuan's intention to murder Nicola and Areina would not cancel out a hypothetical murder on Egwene's part (and as she does commit two such murders in tGS, that puts her further in the whole), as that command is basically the minimal expectation of decent behavior, like Elayne forbidding Birgitte from unlawfully arresting "Mellar". An act of mercy that mitigates violence, would be when someone forgoes a justifiable and personally desirable act of violence. Giving away something you do not lawfully possess is not an act of goodness, and therefore it cannot be a mitigation of theft.
Cannoli you are the rudest poster I've ever come across on this board, or on wotmania. You've only recently even become civil to other posters. I think it's a good point when rationalizing why others posters usually come at you so aggressively - I think we've all felt your venom over the years.
So what? You're completely ignoring the point I've made, that one thing does not justify another. I don't care how "aggressively" anyone comes at me (for the most part, this stuff does not even register on me, as I don't like to project emotions onto correspondance), I care about the topic. When you say "this is wrong, because the book says XXX" that's something we can talk about. When you say "you're wrong because I imagine you to be XXXX sort of person," that's a bullshit argument. That's not even an argument, it is a fallacy. THAT is the substance of my objection, not that my feelings are hurt, but that it is an illegitimate argument or answer.

I did not claim that! I had nothing to do with that assertion. I was merely informing this Tyr person that you actually do have another login when he replied to Darius' assertion.
And by defending his assertion, you supported and abetted it! Tyr doubted I would make up fake accounts for the purpose of defending my own positions, and you implied that I did by pointing out that I have another account. Why is that fact at all relevant, unless you are trying to support darius' position?
Are you saying that I'm commenting where I'm not wanted?
No, I am saying you bring irrelevant personal things into a discussion about WoT.
Because I thought that conversations that split off were completely acceptable. There are certain posters whom I like to interact with like you, Cannoli, DomA, Darius, Fionwe and Shannow. I think your appraisal of me is very unfair considering my posts above were purely and factually about Egwene. The other two berated me for trying - it makes complete sense that they wanted to challenge you too but they find it a waste of time. I definitely felt like I wasted my time.
Why? Are you walking back any claims? Conceding any positions? Am I complaining about wasting my time?

You are biased - you can't accept quotes that directly contradict your opinions.
I can't accept your descriptions of quotes, and I don't accept other people's opinions about the meanings of quotes as definitive.
Forgive me but I think that's what you do. I've given evidence that I've posted moderate opinions about this character. Where is yours?
Why is a moderate opinion necessary or superior?
Except anyone else who also does is "crazy". And now you guys, after bringing the whole point up, are now falling all over yourselves to pretend indifference and innocence.

Well you're mashing us all together into a 'single poster' which isn't fair. I wrote to you about Egwene in two decent posts and agreed with Fionwe that you've become too stubborn to talk to. I apologize if that felt like a mortal wound.

See? There you go again.
I personally have been on the receiving end of exactly that sort of vitriol from you about Lanfear slash everyone. You've directly told me that I'm a power-hungry person in real life because I like the Forsaken and the OP.
But I never said you were not worth talking about, or inferred personal qualities from a general style of discussion. If you want to guess what my specific complaints about Egwene say about my values and opinions, go right ahead. Hell, it's something I've wondered about for the fandom in general, and even speculated about back on wotmania, but couldn't think of any way to explore.
Cannoli, for the love of god, go look at the original posts by me and Fionwe where we demonstrated that you distorted quotes! Fionwe went into even further detail about the raid on the Tower. Your recollection of the facts of those scenes is wrong. It's this sort of denial that is so frustrating.
You didn't quote, though fionwe did later, about a peripheral issue. You offered your own recollections and perspectives of that incident.
Gosh I'm starting to think this is years of anger being released in my direction I never said you falsified responses to your own posts, not even once. I'm not going to go into the CMB posts and how people aggressively reply to your seemingly radical political/minority views... I just hate it when aggressors are pitied as victims on this board.
What does being radical or a minority have do with right or wrong?
Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
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Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions - 26/12/2015 08:46:07 PM 2121 Views
My answers - 27/12/2015 02:55:35 AM 1077 Views
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Black Ajah - 28/12/2015 02:44:04 AM 1073 Views
Mine - 27/12/2015 10:39:08 PM 1222 Views
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Re: Mine - 28/12/2015 09:51:54 AM 953 Views
Re: Mine - 28/12/2015 02:02:33 PM 1010 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions - 28/12/2015 12:40:49 PM 1406 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions - 28/12/2015 01:53:00 PM 1219 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions - 29/12/2015 11:35:09 AM 1044 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions - 29/12/2015 05:12:46 PM 1087 Views
So about Egwene... - 28/12/2015 04:26:47 PM 1273 Views
Re: So about Egwene... - 28/12/2015 10:52:29 PM 1099 Views
Why do you bother? *NM* - 29/12/2015 01:23:10 AM 624 Views
Seriously... - 29/12/2015 01:30:34 AM 1111 Views
Sadly I have to agree - 29/12/2015 08:46:58 AM 1137 Views
You people are the insane ones - 29/12/2015 11:21:24 AM 1154 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones - 29/12/2015 12:10:51 PM 1190 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones - 30/12/2015 11:25:09 AM 1151 Views
Yet it's Mesaana who forces the head to head confrontation with Egwene - 30/12/2015 05:25:00 PM 1147 Views
I don't get the "circumstances being created" argument anyway... - 31/12/2015 02:53:14 AM 966 Views
Re: I don't get the "circumstances being created" argument anyway... - 31/12/2015 06:28:33 AM 1100 Views
Damn stupid WoT, never working out the way you think it should! - 04/01/2016 01:38:45 AM 1145 Views
So you agree, Egwene eliminated on of the Forsaken in a direct conflict - 04/01/2016 03:28:35 AM 1008 Views
Yeah. I just don't see how it redounds to her credit, or is particularly impressive. - 04/01/2016 07:17:20 AM 1189 Views
Re: Yeah. I just don't see how it redounds to her credit, or is particularly impressive. - 04/01/2016 03:59:18 PM 1089 Views
Re: Yeah. I just don't see how it redounds to her credit, or is particularly impressive. - 04/01/2016 04:19:00 PM 1132 Views
Well, to put things in context - 04/01/2016 04:28:00 PM 1174 Views
Re: Well, to put things in context - 04/01/2016 07:05:27 PM 1245 Views
That's not the worst argument given how lame many of them were - 04/01/2016 06:37:44 PM 1157 Views
Uh oh - 04/01/2016 07:03:08 PM 1601 Views
*grabs Dewars* *NM* - 04/01/2016 08:24:05 PM 730 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones - 30/12/2015 06:22:02 PM 1265 Views
Apparently, Egwene shouldn't have killed the Sharans... - 31/12/2015 02:56:08 AM 1193 Views
it's just an excuse to not give credit to a character he doesn't like - 31/12/2015 04:44:17 AM 1351 Views
Exactly. The double standard has always existed in Cannoli's rants. - 31/12/2015 05:31:42 AM 1275 Views
Yes well I've only recently started to realize how distasteful it is - 31/12/2015 06:27:26 AM 1282 Views
Wow... the board was alive 5 years ago! - 31/12/2015 08:34:03 AM 1247 Views
LOL ... Someday you'll come to realize how right we were!!! *NM* - 31/12/2015 05:23:18 PM 742 Views
How is this a concession? - 04/01/2016 08:05:38 AM 1368 Views
Re: How is this a concession? - 04/01/2016 10:49:20 AM 1412 Views
You can dislike Cannoli, you can claim his arguments are biased... - 31/12/2015 07:09:55 PM 1266 Views
Offended? No, I find it funny, in a needs medication way - 31/12/2015 07:50:28 PM 1118 Views
It is possible - 01/01/2016 05:59:51 AM 1239 Views
It's also possible that he created a bunch of sock puppet handles to pat himself on the back - 01/01/2016 06:53:27 AM 1222 Views
Re: It's also possible that he created a bunch of sock puppet handles to pat himself on the back - 01/01/2016 08:43:43 AM 1157 Views
She's. Not. A. Real. Person. - 02/01/2016 01:49:37 AM 1233 Views
Re: She's. Not. A. Real. Person. - 02/01/2016 04:16:39 AM 1201 Views
Re: She's. Not. A. Real. Person. - 08/01/2016 10:33:22 PM 1161 Views
Fair enough - 01/01/2016 09:31:47 AM 988 Views
Where did I say someone who reads his posts are dumb or something? - 01/01/2016 05:15:30 PM 956 Views
Not directly - 01/01/2016 09:09:05 PM 1061 Views
And yet I'm being told I'm the one acting offended - 02/01/2016 01:15:15 AM 940 Views
See, this is the crap I'm talking about. - 01/01/2016 06:20:16 PM 1027 Views
Re: See, this is the crap I'm talking about. - 01/01/2016 07:25:38 PM 1108 Views
Okay, Mark, all kidding and stuff aside, you're being the asshole, here. - 02/01/2016 03:49:08 AM 1129 Views
Okay... - 02/01/2016 04:50:24 AM 1068 Views
About insults... - 02/01/2016 05:04:47 AM 1023 Views
I don't know where to even respond about all this! - 02/01/2016 07:39:43 PM 999 Views
Re: I don't know where to even respond about all this! - 03/01/2016 10:39:10 AM 1038 Views
LOL ... Love it *NM* - 03/01/2016 04:17:02 PM 550 Views
Re: Okay... - 02/01/2016 12:55:37 PM 1314 Views
Um, I think you are going a bit far with your assumptions - 01/01/2016 07:35:23 PM 1001 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones - 29/12/2015 02:13:32 PM 1038 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones - 30/12/2015 11:50:13 AM 1284 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones - 30/12/2015 05:07:09 PM 1145 Views
My admittedly scratch memory - 31/12/2015 08:32:51 AM 1028 Views
Re: My admittedly scratch memory - 31/12/2015 08:47:58 AM 1088 Views
Thanks - 01/01/2016 06:14:45 AM 1002 Views
One thing... - 01/01/2016 06:42:10 AM 956 Views
Re: One thing... - 01/01/2016 08:49:00 AM 970 Views
Re: One thing... - 01/01/2016 01:40:21 PM 1032 Views
Interesting - 01/01/2016 09:18:43 AM 999 Views
Re: Interesting - 01/01/2016 05:29:38 PM 1021 Views
Re: Interesting - 01/01/2016 06:50:26 PM 959 Views
Or perhaps a mixed circle could figure it out - 01/01/2016 07:40:02 PM 940 Views
Maybe it's like a broken bone? - 01/01/2016 09:10:26 PM 1000 Views
Re: Maybe it's like a broken bone? - 02/01/2016 01:13:05 AM 998 Views
Re: My admittedly scratch memory - 02/01/2016 02:10:44 AM 1222 Views
Here we go with the selective criticisms again... - 02/01/2016 04:23:47 AM 1080 Views
It's not selective to point out legitimate differences in circumstances. - 02/01/2016 12:25:07 PM 1270 Views
not true, the Sul'dam's mission was to capture or kill as many marath'damane as they could - 02/01/2016 08:49:28 PM 978 Views
How are they supposed to do that without a'dam? - 04/01/2016 01:45:52 AM 1101 Views
enemy combatant in an active hot zone - 04/01/2016 03:34:15 AM 985 Views
Only if they were germane to the issue... - 03/01/2016 09:32:22 AM 939 Views
Timing of the creation of the three oaths - 03/01/2016 08:22:12 PM 1010 Views
Re: Timing of the creation of the three oaths - 03/01/2016 08:56:35 PM 1139 Views
Cheers - 03/01/2016 09:50:41 PM 926 Views
Re: Cheers - 03/01/2016 10:35:34 PM 1079 Views
Re: Only if they were germane to the issue... - 04/01/2016 07:15:58 AM 1019 Views
Q.E.D. - 04/01/2016 12:29:58 PM 1325 Views
Re: Q.E.D. - 04/01/2016 02:41:19 PM 1209 Views
Interesting... - 28/12/2015 02:31:33 PM 1058 Views
Re Perrin - 29/12/2015 07:24:41 AM 1120 Views
Perrin is right almost all the time. How is he not smart? - 04/01/2016 08:26:18 AM 1276 Views
Re: Perrin is right almost all the time. How is he not smart? - 04/01/2016 01:44:53 PM 1097 Views
Re: Perrin is right almost all the time. How is he not smart? - 07/01/2016 12:24:28 AM 1335 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions - 18/01/2016 04:40:03 PM 872 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions - 18/01/2016 04:44:10 PM 844 Views
Overrated characters - 06/02/2016 04:24:55 PM 889 Views

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