What the hell is a whole thing?
Now? Yes. Because the only point I'm trying to make is that arguing with you about Egwene is pointless. I'm not refuting specific points you make by resorting to ad hominem attacks. I'm arguing that trying to refute anything is meaningless, when it comes to this issue.
And you think that's better? You're ducking entire arguments, whole topics of conversation, by claiming I can't have a valid opinion because you disagree with me on it. You're claiming that being genocidal is better than homicidal.
Nice straw man. I never accused you of any such thing.
I never said you did, I was responding to a post by Sidious, where, in response to a common complaint I have made through the entire series, he chose to highlight a handful of incidents not only exclusively drawn from the books by Sanderson, but taking place after the majority of the series was over.
This just makes no sense. Saerin took a small bunch of Aes Sedai, used her authority as a Sitter, and made them not panic and do a basic job of defending their position. Not close to bad, but how the heck is this comparable to converting a bunch of Novices into a coherent fighting force,
She didn't! She simply drew on their strength. They didn't fight at all. She didn't teach them advanced techniques, she just leeched off their power. Not only that, these were women harshly disciplined into a total lack of agency. Giving orders to such people and making them obey is easier, which is why it is done to them in the first place. Saerin induced willful women used to fighting for every scrap of authority and autonomy they could get, to cooperate under her. If you think that the be all and end all of leadership is simply holding a title, that having legal authority all by itself is sufficient to get people to obey, you obviously haven't read the whole Wheel of Time series. If having a title makes leadership easy and undermines any accomplishments, Egwene has had the highest title, and did absolutely nothing before being randomly handed it, so YOU are the one who has been excessive in your praise for the whole series.
teaching them advanced techniques at a time of panic and chaos, then using that knowledge to let them hold various defensive positions while she herself mounted the most effective offense?
She DIDN'T mount an offense! She never fought except against attackers.
How is this what she did? She saw a critical weakness in the protection of the Tower's most destructive weapons: in a chaotic situation where no one was paying attention to the wards, anyone could weave a Gateway and take what they want... including Forsaken. Worse, Egwene's actions have just let the cat out of the bag.
What do you want her to do? Do the equivalent of posting the nuclear codes on the internet for everyone to see so that in case of emergency someone can use them, never mind that someone can in fact cause the emergency by stealing a sa'angreal?
No, I am asking her to NOT lock up all the guns, AFTER the war has already broken out. You're comparing items that merely alter the degree of effectiveness to strategic weapons, but I'M the one who is distorting things. Okay. Sure.
She had them hidden, and unlike Elaida, had no illusions of the Tower being invulnerable. In an emergency, the people in the know could access the sa'angreal and distribute them. We're not made privy to any emergency plans she put in place, Sanderson being Sanderson,
In the first place, Sanderson being Sanderson, how can you credit anything characters do under his watch, and in the second, Aes Sedai being Aes Sedai, it's a pretty good bet there are no sensible emergency plans. The Salidar group is much more free of stagnant mentalities and more open to reforms, but their whole plan for responding to an attack by the Forsaken or Seanchan or anyone at all is "Form circles!"
but if you think it is in her character to not account for this possibility, then you are once again distorting and misrepresenting to suit your bias.
Your assumption that she IS doing something unprecedented is just as much a factor of your bias, as my assumption that she is not doing something she has never done before. On the contrary, Egwene has a history of overreacting, for which you and your kind make allowances. Her murder of the helpless sul'dam for one thing.
This is a flat out lie. She overdrew because she was exactly matched with Taim. She needed the extra power to push through his Balefire. Once that was done, she could have released the Source and hoped that all that happened was that she burned out, and then Mat would have been left with 400 odd Sharan channelers to deal with, AND the world would have had a new Bore to contend with right as Rand was at the cusp of complete defeat in the Dark One's hands. Or she could draw in even more amounts of the OP, and destroy the Sharans and close the new hole in the Pattern in one swoop, consequences to herself be damned.
with no evidence in her PoV that she was even considering her own place in history or how this moment would be viewed!
Only her own SPEECH. She had a past history of doing exactly that. Rand, who is constantly predicting her responses with accuracy and seeing right through her, comes to the same conclusion.
Isn't that textbook bias? You have concluded she is a megalomaniac, so of course she must be, so the lack of evidence doesn't matter, because... you said so?
That's exactly what you are doing. Egwene is good, therefore anything she did that works out well was done with the best of intentions, and anything she did that is half-assed and incomplete, she fixed behind the scenes, despite no indication whatsoever of her doing so. And anyone who disagrees is dismissed as insane and irrational.
Yet another straw man. Please tell me where I said Egwene killing captured Aes Sedai was a good thing,
What the hell are you talking about? She didn't kill any captured sisters, unless they were on the to'raken she shot down, in which case she is not remotely morally capable. She didn't put them on the to'raken, so it is not her fault if they die when she kills the flyers. Are you saying that she WAS wrong to do so? Because THAT is crazy.
or in character, for that matter. Where did I say that holding these positions makes you rabid?
EDIT: I see now my prior comment lined up under the wrong post. I thought I was responding to Sidious because he was last on the thread.
Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
This message last edited by Cannoli on 30/12/2015 at 11:55:55 AM
Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions
26/12/2015 08:46:07 PM
- 2123 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions
27/12/2015 04:42:28 PM
- 1176 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions
28/12/2015 12:40:49 PM
- 1407 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions
28/12/2015 01:53:00 PM
- 1220 Views
So about Egwene...
28/12/2015 04:26:47 PM
- 1274 Views
Why do you bother? *NM*
29/12/2015 01:23:10 AM
- 624 Views
Seriously...
29/12/2015 01:30:34 AM
- 1112 Views
You people are the insane ones
29/12/2015 11:21:24 AM
- 1155 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones
29/12/2015 12:10:51 PM
- 1192 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones
30/12/2015 11:25:09 AM
- 1151 Views
Yet it's Mesaana who forces the head to head confrontation with Egwene
30/12/2015 05:25:00 PM
- 1148 Views
I don't get the "circumstances being created" argument anyway...
31/12/2015 02:53:14 AM
- 967 Views
Re: I don't get the "circumstances being created" argument anyway...
31/12/2015 06:28:33 AM
- 1102 Views
Damn stupid WoT, never working out the way you think it should!
04/01/2016 01:38:45 AM
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So you agree, Egwene eliminated on of the Forsaken in a direct conflict
04/01/2016 03:28:35 AM
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Yeah. I just don't see how it redounds to her credit, or is particularly impressive.
04/01/2016 07:17:20 AM
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Re: Yeah. I just don't see how it redounds to her credit, or is particularly impressive.
04/01/2016 03:59:18 PM
- 1090 Views
Re: Yeah. I just don't see how it redounds to her credit, or is particularly impressive.
04/01/2016 04:19:00 PM
- 1134 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones
30/12/2015 06:22:02 PM
- 1266 Views
Apparently, Egwene shouldn't have killed the Sharans...
31/12/2015 02:56:08 AM
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it's just an excuse to not give credit to a character he doesn't like
31/12/2015 04:44:17 AM
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Exactly. The double standard has always existed in Cannoli's rants.
31/12/2015 05:31:42 AM
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Yes well I've only recently started to realize how distasteful it is
31/12/2015 06:27:26 AM
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You can dislike Cannoli, you can claim his arguments are biased...
31/12/2015 07:09:55 PM
- 1266 Views
Offended? No, I find it funny, in a needs medication way
31/12/2015 07:50:28 PM
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It is possible
01/01/2016 05:59:51 AM
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It's also possible that he created a bunch of sock puppet handles to pat himself on the back
01/01/2016 06:53:27 AM
- 1224 Views
Re: It's also possible that he created a bunch of sock puppet handles to pat himself on the back
01/01/2016 08:43:43 AM
- 1158 Views
She's. Not. A. Real. Person.
02/01/2016 01:49:37 AM
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Fair enough
01/01/2016 09:31:47 AM
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Where did I say someone who reads his posts are dumb or something?
01/01/2016 05:15:30 PM
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See, this is the crap I'm talking about.
01/01/2016 06:20:16 PM
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Re: See, this is the crap I'm talking about.
01/01/2016 07:25:38 PM
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Okay, Mark, all kidding and stuff aside, you're being the asshole, here.
02/01/2016 03:49:08 AM
- 1131 Views
Okay...
02/01/2016 04:50:24 AM
- 1068 Views
About insults...
02/01/2016 05:04:47 AM
- 1024 Views
I don't know where to even respond about all this!
02/01/2016 07:39:43 PM
- 1001 Views
Cannoli's the one who got offended.
31/12/2015 09:23:45 PM
- 1023 Views
Yeah, because I was talking about the books, and then you three started talking about me.
02/01/2016 03:55:23 AM
- 1044 Views
Re: Yeah, because I was talking about the books, and then you three started talking about me.
02/01/2016 04:56:36 AM
- 1005 Views
Re: You can dislike Cannoli, you can claim his arguments are biased...
01/01/2016 08:41:18 AM
- 1015 Views
Right? Hell, I was semi-mocking YOU for even bothering to get into it with Cannoli! *NM*
01/01/2016 05:20:58 PM
- 517 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones
29/12/2015 02:13:32 PM
- 1039 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones
30/12/2015 11:50:13 AM
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Re: You people are the insane ones
30/12/2015 05:07:09 PM
- 1147 Views
My admittedly scratch memory
31/12/2015 08:32:51 AM
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Re: My admittedly scratch memory
31/12/2015 08:47:58 AM
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Thanks
01/01/2016 06:14:45 AM
- 1004 Views
One thing...
01/01/2016 06:42:10 AM
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Re: One thing...
01/01/2016 08:49:00 AM
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Re: One thing...
01/01/2016 01:40:21 PM
- 1032 Views
We need a term for stuff like that. I nominate "pulling a Brandon" because "BS" is so common.
02/01/2016 02:13:19 AM
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Interesting
01/01/2016 09:18:43 AM
- 1000 Views
Re: Interesting
01/01/2016 05:29:38 PM
- 1023 Views
Re: Interesting
01/01/2016 06:50:26 PM
- 959 Views
Or perhaps a mixed circle could figure it out
01/01/2016 07:40:02 PM
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Re: My admittedly scratch memory
02/01/2016 02:10:44 AM
- 1223 Views
Here we go with the selective criticisms again...
02/01/2016 04:23:47 AM
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It's not selective to point out legitimate differences in circumstances.
02/01/2016 12:25:07 PM
- 1272 Views
not true, the Sul'dam's mission was to capture or kill as many marath'damane as they could
02/01/2016 08:49:28 PM
- 979 Views
Only if they were germane to the issue...
03/01/2016 09:32:22 AM
- 940 Views
Timing of the creation of the three oaths
03/01/2016 08:22:12 PM
- 1010 Views
Interesting...
28/12/2015 02:31:33 PM
- 1059 Views
Re Perrin
29/12/2015 07:24:41 AM
- 1121 Views
Perrin is right almost all the time. How is he not smart?
04/01/2016 08:26:18 AM
- 1277 Views