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Re: Aran'gar Sidious Send a noteboard - 16/12/2015 06:54:28 AM

There's also the skill issue. Flinn way well be more skilled than Daigian., for all we know.

It's likely that no Ash'aman is nearly as skilled as any Aes Sedai as the most senior of their member has channeled for less time than any novice. That said, AS don't know squat about saidin and vice versa... it's likely all the circles were completely inefficient at melding the two Powers.


Yup, and it is the most quantitative statement we have on the Power. It puts the lie to the idea that Egwene was stronger than Amys and Melaine combined (which Aviendha made) or that Egwene+Lelaine+Romanda couldn't have matched Aran'gar (which Egwene made). Even Moiraine's statement that Egwene+Aviendha would just match a female Forsaken is suspect, but plausible if Aviendha was weaker than her eventual level 11.

These characters were all speaking from ignorance, inflating the strengths of Egwene, or the Forsaken.


It proves nothing, and it's absurd to think that ALL the quotes on this issue are incorrect, especially from people who actually know how strong they all are. We know for a fact that the Companion doesn't know how strong Cadsuane is, and there are several other potential mess ups like Rahvin. I would go as far to say that the Companion should not be considered canon on several issues, as well as the last few books of the series. I think it's a very valid point stating that the original author had no part in the verification of these facts, and clearly many of them have been messed up. For instance, Graendal with her angreal fought a few average Aes Sedai and killed one, and yet she managed to hold her own in the Last Battle against an onslought that included Cadsuane AND Talaan, and without her angreal. It's completely absurd and BS did less than basic research into the OP before he wrote his part. There are many other OP errors (Taim can't be shielded by will alone, for instance) in the last few books, and his answers to fans have also made me cringe in the past. I'm sorry if it sounds bitter but I suspect you two both agree that RJ's legacy has been handled horribly since his death.

Cadsuane's angreal logically makes her a ++1. She could deflect the power of any attack that hit her, and there were at least two ++2's going for her.

It's likely that two AS fall well short of a ++1 - we have actually seen Rand squash two at the same time like flies while feeling dazed, and with shields no less. Lews Therin himself says that he can handle three women if they aren't too strong, and one must be Forsaken strength to make his life difficult. That is highly similar to Egwene's statement that she could not overwhelm a Forsaken linked to Romanda and Lelaine, considering all three of them are weaker than even Moghedien. We also know from Liandrin that it will take about three of them to smother Moghedien.

We know that Amys' strength is vague in the series - one quote placing her alongside Moiraine, the other alongside Sheriam. I see nothing ridiculous about Egwene being able to overwhelm the two if she has a strength of 80 and they are at 40-50 each.

We also know that everyone has horribly underestimated the skill of the Forsaken. Alivia is stronger than Cyndane in raw strength alone, and even with a strong angreal and many protective ter'angreal she barely escaped with her life. I have strong doubts whether we can make any conclusions from the Cleansing. We only had a glimpse of it - we know from RJ that Semirhage also fought some of the circles, for instance. It's possible that Semirhage killed Eben or Kumira - it's chaos that we witnessed through a keyhole. We also don't know how powerful these mixed circles are, but it seems like the amplification is substantial.

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Sortable, searchable file of Channelers - 28/11/2015 10:01:57 PM 3404 Views
Outstanding job - 29/11/2015 04:15:17 PM 1157 Views
Re: Outstanding job - 29/11/2015 06:53:40 PM 1148 Views
Very impressive. Well done. - 29/11/2015 04:41:52 PM 1290 Views
Re: Very impressive. Well done. - 29/11/2015 06:54:02 PM 1181 Views
Quick Question - 30/11/2015 05:11:17 AM 1272 Views
Nope - 30/11/2015 05:44:04 AM 1289 Views
They do say it - 30/11/2015 10:32:48 AM 1474 Views
I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 30/11/2015 03:21:00 PM 1151 Views
Re: I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 01/12/2015 08:02:01 AM 1276 Views
Well, it also states that there are gradations within each level too - 01/12/2015 04:26:29 PM 1313 Views
Well maybe - 02/12/2015 06:31:05 AM 1259 Views
Here's how I see it: - 02/12/2015 08:34:54 AM 1329 Views
I agree - 02/12/2015 04:22:52 PM 1318 Views
Re: I agree - 02/12/2015 05:14:50 PM 1444 Views
It's always been confusing - 02/12/2015 06:00:01 PM 1405 Views
Re: It's always been confusing - 02/12/2015 07:27:11 PM 1395 Views
I wholeheartedly agree - 02/12/2015 08:07:39 PM 1200 Views
Re: Here's how I see it: - 02/12/2015 04:46:54 PM 1436 Views
Morgase - 03/12/2015 04:37:47 AM 1292 Views
I agree with you on this - 03/12/2015 03:22:22 PM 1140 Views
Re: Morgase - 03/12/2015 07:46:59 PM 1414 Views
I didn't realize he was being literal in that comment - 03/12/2015 09:29:52 PM 1268 Views
Re: Well maybe - 02/12/2015 03:52:49 PM 1374 Views
Re: Well maybe - 02/12/2015 04:42:37 PM 1441 Views
Probably - 02/12/2015 06:11:42 PM 1217 Views
Re: Probably - 02/12/2015 07:38:50 PM 1329 Views
Indeed - 02/12/2015 08:21:07 PM 1199 Views
Re: Indeed - 03/12/2015 04:08:03 AM 1138 Views
close enough to not debate about it - 03/12/2015 03:47:55 PM 1172 Views
Re: close enough to not debate about it - 03/12/2015 04:14:38 PM 1172 Views
I think you misunderstand what I'm saying - 03/12/2015 04:43:29 PM 1218 Views
Re: I think you misunderstand what I'm saying - 03/12/2015 05:41:17 PM 1249 Views
um, no - 03/12/2015 09:24:31 PM 1164 Views
You two seem like Egwene's interchangeable defenders to me; it's weird to see you fighting. - 04/12/2015 09:21:23 PM 1430 Views
That's on you... - 04/12/2015 09:46:51 PM 1192 Views
We've been arguing on the forums for like 10 years - 06/12/2015 07:36:55 PM 1131 Views
It's Cannoli, Darius - 06/12/2015 08:53:06 PM 1158 Views
LOL *NM* - 07/12/2015 03:26:40 AM 724 Views
Some points - 05/12/2015 11:14:30 AM 1167 Views
Re: close enough to not debate about it - 05/12/2015 11:29:44 AM 1222 Views
Re: I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 03/12/2015 07:22:15 AM 1136 Views
Great job - 30/11/2015 05:45:27 AM 1149 Views
Re: Great job - 30/11/2015 03:22:09 PM 1168 Views
Made a few adjustments to add some presumed minimum/maximum levels *NM* - 30/11/2015 04:28:13 PM 779 Views
Some questions - 30/11/2015 05:18:00 PM 1165 Views
Re: Some questions - 30/11/2015 07:26:29 PM 1139 Views
Re: Some questions - 01/12/2015 08:05:01 AM 1334 Views
That's why I added another column to it - 01/12/2015 04:25:04 PM 1211 Views
Some more - 01/12/2015 05:24:40 PM 1239 Views
Re: Some more - 01/12/2015 07:34:20 PM 1264 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 12:27:40 AM 1259 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 02:26:53 AM 1209 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 08:24:49 AM 1231 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 05:54:49 PM 1281 Views
Re: Some more - 03/12/2015 04:26:45 AM 1116 Views
You said this much better than I did - 03/12/2015 03:53:57 PM 1149 Views
I think the men are much too strong - 02/12/2015 09:01:56 AM 1336 Views
Yes - 02/12/2015 03:06:44 PM 1179 Views
Re: Yes - 02/12/2015 04:45:20 PM 1262 Views
Re: Yes - 02/12/2015 06:39:43 PM 1315 Views
Re: Yes - 03/12/2015 03:56:23 AM 1120 Views
I think when characters quoted information from their world it gets muddled - 03/12/2015 04:19:43 PM 1206 Views
Shielding - 05/12/2015 11:19:40 AM 1113 Views
I feel like there is an RJ quote about this actually - 06/12/2015 06:41:35 PM 1108 Views
Re: I feel like there is an RJ quote about this actually - 07/12/2015 12:39:54 PM 1154 Views
seriously! - 07/12/2015 04:55:43 PM 1168 Views
Who should defer to whom? - 01/12/2015 08:17:22 PM 1332 Views
Interesting... - 02/12/2015 08:44:32 AM 1285 Views
I think there needs to be a pretty significant (5+ levels) difference - 02/12/2015 06:25:35 PM 1325 Views
Good job - 05/12/2015 08:43:09 PM 1666 Views
Some questions - 06/12/2015 12:28:46 AM 1186 Views
Can't offer much - 06/12/2015 12:33:29 AM 1495 Views
Cool. Hopefully Dom will see this... - 06/12/2015 08:58:39 PM 1072 Views
Re: Some questions - 06/12/2015 08:06:56 PM 1143 Views
Then there would be some mention of it, yes/ - 06/12/2015 08:56:10 PM 1077 Views
Not at all ... He clearly had a general sense of how it worked - 07/12/2015 03:28:35 AM 1072 Views
Re: Some questions - 07/12/2015 04:19:43 PM 1362 Views
yet we also know that some things are inherently different for men and women - 07/12/2015 08:15:26 PM 1056 Views
it probably has to do with the fact that the characters in the books are also obsessed with strength - 06/12/2015 07:58:20 PM 1194 Views
Sort of. - 06/12/2015 10:30:36 PM 1657 Views
Makes sense - 07/12/2015 12:38:54 AM 1075 Views
Clearly his strength rankings came in mid-series - 07/12/2015 07:39:59 PM 1292 Views
Re: Clearly his strength rankings came in mid-series - 10/12/2015 05:33:27 AM 1153 Views
Probably something along those lines - 10/12/2015 03:44:48 PM 1048 Views
Lifespan question (Spoiler) - 08/12/2015 05:42:41 PM 1078 Views
Moiraine... - 09/12/2015 02:28:50 AM 1118 Views
That too is possible - 09/12/2015 03:02:12 PM 1109 Views
Some random trends/data points - 08/12/2015 08:39:14 PM 1109 Views
Who is the one Sharan? And I'm surprised so many Seanchan have listed strength levels. *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:42:51 AM 752 Views
Re: Who is the one Sharan? And I'm surprised so many Seanchan have listed strength levels. - 09/12/2015 02:31:18 PM 1176 Views
Not sure she can channel, though - 09/12/2015 03:22:17 PM 991 Views
Re: Not sure she can channel, though - 09/12/2015 04:54:37 PM 1184 Views
duplicate post ignore *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:31:36 PM 660 Views
duplicate post ignore *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:31:55 PM 691 Views
so.... - 09/12/2015 06:10:41 AM 1176 Views
Nope... - 09/12/2015 03:24:07 PM 1126 Views
Yes - 09/12/2015 03:46:30 PM 1084 Views
Some things to consider - 09/12/2015 04:18:50 PM 1098 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 05:43:35 AM 1067 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 06:28:49 AM 1025 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 11:53:51 AM 1072 Views
Sorilea has always been shown as skilled - 10/12/2015 04:10:37 PM 1119 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 04:46:29 PM 1031 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 05:50:17 PM 1066 Views
plenty of weaker ones with notably strong Talents actually - 10/12/2015 06:26:03 PM 1149 Views
This is a flawed list - 11/12/2015 05:14:47 AM 1062 Views
and you are just rationalizing to make your point seem plausible - 11/12/2015 03:10:12 PM 1175 Views
another point about Talents (unrelated to the Strength question) - 11/12/2015 06:06:42 PM 1258 Views
Not really - 11/12/2015 09:09:41 PM 1121 Views
You are trying to force fit thin evidence into a sweeping statement - 11/12/2015 10:13:13 PM 1140 Views
Re: You are trying to force fit thin evidence into a sweeping statement - 12/12/2015 06:46:05 AM 1077 Views
Let's face it a body builder ninja is sort of funny to think about - 12/12/2015 02:55:37 PM 1176 Views
Some quotes - 12/12/2015 01:18:41 AM 1042 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 12/12/2015 03:18:30 AM 1135 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 12/12/2015 06:19:15 AM 1120 Views
Hey ... I have no interest in making you look stupid! - 12/12/2015 03:15:26 PM 1087 Views
Re: Hey ... I have no interest in making you look stupid! - 13/12/2015 11:26:17 AM 1103 Views
Yes, it's a sad thing to realize that this is pretty much the end of the road - 14/12/2015 04:40:50 PM 1066 Views
Re: Yes, it's a sad thing to realize that this is pretty much the end of the road - 15/12/2015 06:01:58 AM 1097 Views
I'm actually perplexed - 15/12/2015 07:19:27 AM 1022 Views
Re: I'm actually perplexed - 17/12/2015 11:36:59 AM 1135 Views
LOL ... Amen! *NM* - 15/12/2015 03:54:55 PM 703 Views
I don't think Elayne was that Strong in TSR - 10/12/2015 04:55:19 PM 1109 Views
Yes and No - 09/12/2015 04:35:48 PM 1055 Views
Re: Yes and No - 09/12/2015 10:41:32 PM 1150 Views
Indeed - 09/12/2015 11:01:03 PM 1093 Views
Ajah Strength Index - 09/12/2015 10:45:29 PM 1118 Views
Greens... - 10/12/2015 12:24:11 AM 1082 Views
Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 03:12:21 AM 1030 Views
Re: Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 04:59:42 AM 1068 Views
Re: Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 04:18:00 PM 1084 Views
Re: Ajah Strength Index - 10/12/2015 05:40:39 AM 1083 Views
I'm not so sure you'd have a chioce - 10/12/2015 04:01:35 PM 1046 Views
Liandrin's 13 - 10/12/2015 09:14:50 PM 1224 Views
Explain - 11/12/2015 05:16:55 AM 1159 Views
Several reasons ... Edited for clarity - 11/12/2015 02:54:58 PM 1242 Views
Bowl of the Winds Circle - 14/12/2015 09:41:33 PM 1073 Views
The Cleansing Circles ... some speculation here - 15/12/2015 05:52:14 PM 1065 Views
If I was Cadsuane I would have done it differently - 15/12/2015 10:01:07 PM 1084 Views
Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 01:11:17 AM 1239 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 06:54:28 AM 1253 Views
mostly agree - 16/12/2015 06:27:06 PM 1129 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 06:50:27 PM 1386 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 17/12/2015 10:07:48 AM 1289 Views
We do have some additional clues - 17/12/2015 06:26:20 PM 1285 Views
additional thought - 16/12/2015 06:49:04 PM 1068 Views
Does she know that? - 16/12/2015 06:58:24 PM 1204 Views
I'm speculating of course - 16/12/2015 07:37:10 PM 1120 Views
Strength by National origin - 16/12/2015 09:04:11 PM 1072 Views
Rebels v. Loyalists! - 16/12/2015 10:29:28 PM 1194 Views
Tamra's known hunters - 04/01/2016 06:58:17 PM 1162 Views
Known... - 05/01/2016 01:54:56 AM 1022 Views
Re: Known... - 05/01/2016 02:55:50 AM 1207 Views

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