Active Users:338 Time:05/04/2025 03:29:38 AM
Re: Some more darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 01/12/2015 07:34:20 PM

Thinking about it, its a good choice. He matched Aviendha's work with the river in tGS, and she's level 11, So he'd have to be 6 levels up to be her equal in effect. So level 5 works.

I think you are under the belief that men operate under a different power level structure here, when in fact men simply occupy more levels than women over all. The weakest man and the weakest woman are roughly equal, but there are more strength levels for men as a whole (thus the ++ levels). Matching Aviendha's work at the river simply means he's roughly the same level as she is, or, given his strength with Air, he could actually be weaker overall, but still skilled enough to match her feat. Egwene is 4 levels below Nynaeve, but there is no way Nynaeve could match her cuendillar ability. Naeff is shown to be similar with Air. We know he has less strength than Nynaeve, but his ability with Air is clearly meant to be amazing thus he can match her.


You could equally well place him just below her. She was worried about the pace of his gaining strength, not that he equalled her. We just assumed he had to already be stronger because we thought the upper levels of Aes Sedai were comically weak. But we know now that is not true.

I think the text from Merise's conversation with Cadsuane makes it pretty clear that Narishma is as strong as she is after his most recent jump in Power, if he was still weaker than she was she would not have commented on it IMO. And it seems he gained a pretty significant increase from the time she bonded him as she seems surprised by how quickly he moved up to her strength.


One other thing: I noticed you placed people like Neald, Flinn, and other men at tentatively level 19 as minimum because they can Travel. For men, though, minimum Traveling level would be level 13.

Not true that men would need to be a level 13 to Travel. It's stated outright under the "gateways" entry in the Companion that "the minimum strength required for making a gateway of useful size, large enough to walk through, was 19(7). The minimum strength required to make any gateway at all out of a circle was 21(9)". Androl's Traveling talent is specifically called out in this entry so it seems true for men as well as women. There is no mention that this would be different for men than women. All we know here is that there would be a higher percentage of men who fall into this strength level or higher because men are generally stronger than women, but not always.

I suspect most of these men probably are stronger than level 19, but that's the highest we can reliably place them without more information from the text.

I assume you are trying to include the "dexterity bonus" thus making a man stronger by several levels than a woman who can perform the same OP related task, but without a scale for both dexterity and strength it's impossible to say how this works.

We know that Level 1 female is roughly equal to a ++1 male, but we don't know that a level 2 female is more more/less effective than a level ++2 or if a level 3 female could be more effective than a level ++2 male. There is some disparity between the dexterity bonus and strength because a level 66 man and a level 66 woman are roughly equal.

Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
This message last edited by darius_sedai on 01/12/2015 at 07:43:46 PM
Reply to message
Sortable, searchable file of Channelers - 28/11/2015 10:01:57 PM 3295 Views
Outstanding job - 29/11/2015 04:15:17 PM 1036 Views
Re: Outstanding job - 29/11/2015 06:53:40 PM 1032 Views
Very impressive. Well done. - 29/11/2015 04:41:52 PM 1170 Views
Re: Very impressive. Well done. - 29/11/2015 06:54:02 PM 1067 Views
Quick Question - 30/11/2015 05:11:17 AM 1149 Views
Nope - 30/11/2015 05:44:04 AM 1167 Views
They do say it - 30/11/2015 10:32:48 AM 1363 Views
I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 30/11/2015 03:21:00 PM 1031 Views
Re: I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 01/12/2015 08:02:01 AM 1160 Views
Well, it also states that there are gradations within each level too - 01/12/2015 04:26:29 PM 1193 Views
Well maybe - 02/12/2015 06:31:05 AM 1142 Views
Here's how I see it: - 02/12/2015 08:34:54 AM 1210 Views
I agree - 02/12/2015 04:22:52 PM 1168 Views
Re: I agree - 02/12/2015 05:14:50 PM 1319 Views
It's always been confusing - 02/12/2015 06:00:01 PM 1283 Views
Re: It's always been confusing - 02/12/2015 07:27:11 PM 1272 Views
I wholeheartedly agree - 02/12/2015 08:07:39 PM 1089 Views
Re: Here's how I see it: - 02/12/2015 04:46:54 PM 1316 Views
Morgase - 03/12/2015 04:37:47 AM 1166 Views
I agree with you on this - 03/12/2015 03:22:22 PM 1017 Views
Re: Morgase - 03/12/2015 07:46:59 PM 1285 Views
I didn't realize he was being literal in that comment - 03/12/2015 09:29:52 PM 1146 Views
Re: Well maybe - 02/12/2015 03:52:49 PM 1239 Views
Re: Well maybe - 02/12/2015 04:42:37 PM 1317 Views
Probably - 02/12/2015 06:11:42 PM 1087 Views
Re: Probably - 02/12/2015 07:38:50 PM 1212 Views
Indeed - 02/12/2015 08:21:07 PM 1086 Views
Re: Indeed - 03/12/2015 04:08:03 AM 1020 Views
close enough to not debate about it - 03/12/2015 03:47:55 PM 1052 Views
Re: close enough to not debate about it - 03/12/2015 04:14:38 PM 1050 Views
I think you misunderstand what I'm saying - 03/12/2015 04:43:29 PM 1087 Views
Re: I think you misunderstand what I'm saying - 03/12/2015 05:41:17 PM 1135 Views
um, no - 03/12/2015 09:24:31 PM 1043 Views
You two seem like Egwene's interchangeable defenders to me; it's weird to see you fighting. - 04/12/2015 09:21:23 PM 1277 Views
That's on you... - 04/12/2015 09:46:51 PM 1079 Views
We've been arguing on the forums for like 10 years - 06/12/2015 07:36:55 PM 1017 Views
It's Cannoli, Darius - 06/12/2015 08:53:06 PM 1041 Views
LOL *NM* - 07/12/2015 03:26:40 AM 635 Views
Some points - 05/12/2015 11:14:30 AM 1043 Views
Re: close enough to not debate about it - 05/12/2015 11:29:44 AM 1111 Views
Re: I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 03/12/2015 07:22:15 AM 1027 Views
Great job - 30/11/2015 05:45:27 AM 1034 Views
Re: Great job - 30/11/2015 03:22:09 PM 1057 Views
Made a few adjustments to add some presumed minimum/maximum levels *NM* - 30/11/2015 04:28:13 PM 689 Views
Some questions - 30/11/2015 05:18:00 PM 1051 Views
Re: Some questions - 30/11/2015 07:26:29 PM 1023 Views
Re: Some questions - 01/12/2015 08:05:01 AM 1213 Views
That's why I added another column to it - 01/12/2015 04:25:04 PM 1091 Views
Some more - 01/12/2015 05:24:40 PM 1120 Views
Re: Some more - 01/12/2015 07:34:20 PM 1147 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 12:27:40 AM 1140 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 02:26:53 AM 1087 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 08:24:49 AM 1105 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 05:54:49 PM 1158 Views
Re: Some more - 03/12/2015 04:26:45 AM 996 Views
You said this much better than I did - 03/12/2015 03:53:57 PM 1031 Views
I think the men are much too strong - 02/12/2015 09:01:56 AM 1214 Views
Yes - 02/12/2015 03:06:44 PM 1058 Views
Re: Yes - 02/12/2015 04:45:20 PM 1143 Views
Re: Yes - 02/12/2015 06:39:43 PM 1194 Views
Re: Yes - 03/12/2015 03:56:23 AM 1000 Views
I think when characters quoted information from their world it gets muddled - 03/12/2015 04:19:43 PM 1069 Views
Shielding - 05/12/2015 11:19:40 AM 998 Views
I feel like there is an RJ quote about this actually - 06/12/2015 06:41:35 PM 993 Views
Re: I feel like there is an RJ quote about this actually - 07/12/2015 12:39:54 PM 1033 Views
seriously! - 07/12/2015 04:55:43 PM 1043 Views
Who should defer to whom? - 01/12/2015 08:17:22 PM 1218 Views
Interesting... - 02/12/2015 08:44:32 AM 1169 Views
I think there needs to be a pretty significant (5+ levels) difference - 02/12/2015 06:25:35 PM 1207 Views
Good job - 05/12/2015 08:43:09 PM 1410 Views
Some questions - 06/12/2015 12:28:46 AM 1073 Views
Can't offer much - 06/12/2015 12:33:29 AM 1245 Views
Cool. Hopefully Dom will see this... - 06/12/2015 08:58:39 PM 944 Views
Re: Some questions - 06/12/2015 08:06:56 PM 1017 Views
Then there would be some mention of it, yes/ - 06/12/2015 08:56:10 PM 953 Views
Not at all ... He clearly had a general sense of how it worked - 07/12/2015 03:28:35 AM 948 Views
Re: Some questions - 07/12/2015 04:19:43 PM 1241 Views
it probably has to do with the fact that the characters in the books are also obsessed with strength - 06/12/2015 07:58:20 PM 1075 Views
Sort of. - 06/12/2015 10:30:36 PM 1402 Views
Makes sense - 07/12/2015 12:38:54 AM 955 Views
Clearly his strength rankings came in mid-series - 07/12/2015 07:39:59 PM 1162 Views
Re: Clearly his strength rankings came in mid-series - 10/12/2015 05:33:27 AM 1032 Views
Probably something along those lines - 10/12/2015 03:44:48 PM 923 Views
Lifespan question (Spoiler) - 08/12/2015 05:42:41 PM 956 Views
Moiraine... - 09/12/2015 02:28:50 AM 998 Views
That too is possible - 09/12/2015 03:02:12 PM 988 Views
Some random trends/data points - 08/12/2015 08:39:14 PM 993 Views
Who is the one Sharan? And I'm surprised so many Seanchan have listed strength levels. *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:42:51 AM 661 Views
Re: Who is the one Sharan? And I'm surprised so many Seanchan have listed strength levels. - 09/12/2015 02:31:18 PM 1056 Views
Not sure she can channel, though - 09/12/2015 03:22:17 PM 876 Views
Re: Not sure she can channel, though - 09/12/2015 04:54:37 PM 1068 Views
duplicate post ignore *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:31:36 PM 568 Views
duplicate post ignore *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:31:55 PM 602 Views
so.... - 09/12/2015 06:10:41 AM 1058 Views
Nope... - 09/12/2015 03:24:07 PM 1007 Views
Yes - 09/12/2015 03:46:30 PM 965 Views
Some things to consider - 09/12/2015 04:18:50 PM 983 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 05:43:35 AM 955 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 06:28:49 AM 897 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 11:53:51 AM 952 Views
Sorilea has always been shown as skilled - 10/12/2015 04:10:37 PM 995 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 04:46:29 PM 916 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 05:50:17 PM 945 Views
plenty of weaker ones with notably strong Talents actually - 10/12/2015 06:26:03 PM 1035 Views
This is a flawed list - 11/12/2015 05:14:47 AM 935 Views
and you are just rationalizing to make your point seem plausible - 11/12/2015 03:10:12 PM 1052 Views
another point about Talents (unrelated to the Strength question) - 11/12/2015 06:06:42 PM 1143 Views
Not really - 11/12/2015 09:09:41 PM 998 Views
You are trying to force fit thin evidence into a sweeping statement - 11/12/2015 10:13:13 PM 1022 Views
Re: You are trying to force fit thin evidence into a sweeping statement - 12/12/2015 06:46:05 AM 960 Views
Let's face it a body builder ninja is sort of funny to think about - 12/12/2015 02:55:37 PM 1053 Views
Some quotes - 12/12/2015 01:18:41 AM 928 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 12/12/2015 03:18:30 AM 1009 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 12/12/2015 06:19:15 AM 997 Views
Hey ... I have no interest in making you look stupid! - 12/12/2015 03:15:26 PM 959 Views
Re: Hey ... I have no interest in making you look stupid! - 13/12/2015 11:26:17 AM 977 Views
Yes, it's a sad thing to realize that this is pretty much the end of the road - 14/12/2015 04:40:50 PM 947 Views
Re: Yes, it's a sad thing to realize that this is pretty much the end of the road - 15/12/2015 06:01:58 AM 976 Views
I'm actually perplexed - 15/12/2015 07:19:27 AM 899 Views
Re: I'm actually perplexed - 17/12/2015 11:36:59 AM 1017 Views
LOL ... Amen! *NM* - 15/12/2015 03:54:55 PM 611 Views
I don't think Elayne was that Strong in TSR - 10/12/2015 04:55:19 PM 983 Views
Yes and No - 09/12/2015 04:35:48 PM 940 Views
Re: Yes and No - 09/12/2015 10:41:32 PM 1023 Views
Indeed - 09/12/2015 11:01:03 PM 976 Views
Ajah Strength Index - 09/12/2015 10:45:29 PM 999 Views
Greens... - 10/12/2015 12:24:11 AM 967 Views
Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 03:12:21 AM 914 Views
Re: Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 04:59:42 AM 951 Views
Re: Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 04:18:00 PM 957 Views
Re: Ajah Strength Index - 10/12/2015 05:40:39 AM 966 Views
I'm not so sure you'd have a chioce - 10/12/2015 04:01:35 PM 927 Views
Liandrin's 13 - 10/12/2015 09:14:50 PM 1106 Views
Explain - 11/12/2015 05:16:55 AM 1027 Views
Several reasons ... Edited for clarity - 11/12/2015 02:54:58 PM 1116 Views
Bowl of the Winds Circle - 14/12/2015 09:41:33 PM 958 Views
The Cleansing Circles ... some speculation here - 15/12/2015 05:52:14 PM 940 Views
If I was Cadsuane I would have done it differently - 15/12/2015 10:01:07 PM 967 Views
Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 01:11:17 AM 1115 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 06:54:28 AM 1000 Views
mostly agree - 16/12/2015 06:27:06 PM 1001 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 06:50:27 PM 1119 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 17/12/2015 10:07:48 AM 1167 Views
We do have some additional clues - 17/12/2015 06:26:20 PM 1166 Views
additional thought - 16/12/2015 06:49:04 PM 935 Views
Does she know that? - 16/12/2015 06:58:24 PM 1079 Views
I'm speculating of course - 16/12/2015 07:37:10 PM 1000 Views
Strength by National origin - 16/12/2015 09:04:11 PM 947 Views
Rebels v. Loyalists! - 16/12/2015 10:29:28 PM 1076 Views
Tamra's known hunters - 04/01/2016 06:58:17 PM 1024 Views
Known... - 05/01/2016 01:54:56 AM 910 Views
Re: Known... - 05/01/2016 02:55:50 AM 1064 Views

Reply to Message