Suppose it wasn't the BA with some sort of riduculous weapon. It could easily have been a man with a knife and they would have still been unprepared.
How could they not have noticed a man with a knife, while they were holding the Power? That is much different than a weapon whose stealth capabilities it's weilder boasts of in that very room. You really need some sort of evidence that a man with a knife could have done anything at all. To assume he would have been successful as someone with an ranged energy discharge weapon is absurd.Holding the Power does not grant you eyes in the back of your head. Elayne and Vandene were not looking at the door, and there have been numerous times when people have missed the sound of a door opening over their own voices.
Elayne went in effectively alone, and was forced into a situation where she and Vandene had to watch (potentially) 5 darkfriends. Some sort of scouting to make sure there was nobody else in the building would have been a good idea.
In the first place, did you READ the book? No one was in the building! Or if they were in there, they were hiding! This is not some video game where the bad guys wait in their room, insensible to people downstairs tearing the place apart looking for power-ups or hidden enemies! A Warder checked the place out and said the coast was clear. What more do you want? The only reason you think there was insufficient checking is purely hindsight. And what on earth do you mean by "effectively alone"? She had three people with her, and they had to watch (potentially) three Darkfriends who were conferring in one room. There were two Aes Sedai, and Shiane. Elayne had already ordered Hanlon/Mellar's arrest, and Jaem secured the thug before they went in. There was no one else in Shiane's cell.The Warder did not enter the building, so the only reason you know nothing was in there is because you know who's in Shiane's cell. You forgot that one of Elayne's "friendly" Aes Sedai was a darkfriend, so she had to watch them too, and Vandene wasn't thinking clearly. One person cannot watch 5 people closely and expect to be aware of everything else.
Even if she couldn't have trusted the Warders and couldn't take 5 minutes to Travel to Rand and do some recruiting,
She couldn't as ANYONE who read the books would know! So why bring it up? As far as the Warders went, there were Careane's three Warders, while the good sisters had a geezer, a youth and a woman. In close combat, they'd be lucky to kill one of Careane's before they all died. I don't know what other book series you are reading where Elayne A. could have relied on help from Rand or B. could have even obtained it! She did not know where he was or what he was doing. Every word that Aviendha said about why they could not go to him at the Cleansing still applied! The situation was unchanged. She didn't know if she would be diverting him in a fight, if he might strike out before he realized it was her, or if she might spoil whatever he was up to by dropping in.Elayne knew exactly where Rand was because of her bond. It also tells her his emotional state, which is a pretty good indicator of what he might be doing (or would be if he still had emotions). But of course Elayne should never drop in and see him incase she might interrupt him with something. If anything, characters in this series tell each other far too much.
she still could have taken some of her bodyguard to watch the house. They could have dealt with most of the more likely potential threats and could have at least warned her that something was up, if only by the sound of their bodies hitting the ground.
Oh, get real! How is she supposed to identify a thump of bootsteps from a thump of a bodies hitting the ground? She already commented on how much noise they make walking earlier in the book. And if she DID hear, and DID decide to do something - what could she have done? Been zapped on the stairs going down, instead of the upper room? Under ideal conditions the guards would have given her a second or two, and not have told her anything that could have prevented the exact same outcome. She had no idea what their weapon was, or if any counter for its effect exists. How could she have stopped it? Who cares if she could have stopped it. Unless those Aes Sedai are much faster than they look, it would give her enough time to Skim the hell out of there.
It's a small cost compared to the possible future Queen being captured.
Your suggestions would not have changed the outcome one bit, would not have spared one life (aside from maybe Careanne's or Asne's if the takedowns had gone a little differently) that was lost that day, and only resulted in fewer bodyguards to protect the future queen. And the good guys HAVE to take risks, since they are on the short end. If they try to play it safe and conventional the whole way, they are going to lose to the superior numbers and raw power of the bad guys. Elayne had to gamble herself to get stuff done, in the same way Rand has to repeatedly risk the entire cause of the Light by going in harm's way to fight the Forsaken.There is a difference between taking risks, and unnecessary risks. In this case, going into a dangerous situation and leaving her bodyguards was stupid. I'm not suggesting she shouldn't have gone in at all, but that she should at least think about what could go wrong.
Rand in general isn't much better, but he at least started taking backup with him when it was available. But Rand also has the excuse that he's the only one who can face down the Forsaken.
In the end, it's pointless to argue about the main characters' military abilities because they are far too young and too sheltered to have experience. Rand and Mat are the only ones who have experience, thanks to other memories, but the others are going to make mistakes. Repeatedly.
Except Elayne has not. Not only that, she took a situation where all of Birgitte's experience and her bodyguard's caution were telling them to get her back safely to the Palace, and insisted on a course of action that enabled her to win her war in one stroke. When wise old experienced Dyelin & Birgitte of the hundreds of lives were balking at her plans and preparations in the prologue to Winter's Heart, SHE turned out to have been right! Had she listened to their "experience" she would have been facing the beseigers with hardly any soldiers to contest the city. She was able to pick up on the idea of using gateways tactically, like, oh, Gareth Bryne, who's only the greatest military mind of her country. By that definition, it's impossible for the protagonists to make mistakes. It's ok for Perrin to leave his army to invade the Shaido with his unstable friend, because we know he can't die. Elayne can make any risky decisions she likes, because they all have to come off in the end.
The way you're describing her, the idea of hitting someone over the head with a shovel is military genius. Elayne isn't a brilliant tactition, she just has the power of dues ex machina at her back.
Are women really bad generals?
- 01/10/2009 07:05:03 PM
1448 Views
No.
- 01/10/2009 07:41:35 PM
860 Views
Or RJ just loves stacking ridiculously unfavourable odds against the male Forsaken generals...
- 01/10/2009 08:40:47 PM
962 Views
Lol... too true
- 01/10/2009 09:32:29 PM
858 Views
And you guys whine about the lameness of RJ's villains?
- 01/10/2009 09:41:54 PM
847 Views
I still haven't seen proof of Demandred or Ishamael's "brilliance".
- 01/10/2009 09:56:41 PM
699 Views
but you are difficult to please
- 02/10/2009 05:10:13 AM
653 Views
But they are lame... they've done minimal damage to the Light
- 02/10/2009 05:06:05 AM
600 Views
You can't have it both ways....
- 02/10/2009 06:47:21 AM
680 Views
Why not?
- 02/10/2009 08:45:35 AM
642 Views
Yeah
- 01/10/2009 09:57:01 PM
628 Views
Re: Yeah
- 01/10/2009 10:40:28 PM
659 Views
I thought the same in the past...
- 02/10/2009 07:01:18 AM
652 Views
Gah! Hate!
- 02/10/2009 04:11:49 PM
659 Views
Ah, come on...
- 02/10/2009 04:41:37 PM
626 Views
No no, I was just being pouty that I haven't read the new stuff yet.
- 02/10/2009 05:01:15 PM
628 Views
- 02/10/2009 05:01:15 PM
628 Views
Re: Or RJ just loves stacking ridiculously unfavourable odds against the male Forsaken generals...
- 01/10/2009 09:51:30 PM
725 Views
Good points! Also, these "generals" haven't actually fielded any troops
- 01/10/2009 11:23:40 PM
604 Views
But as individuals they are meant to be deadly too
- 02/10/2009 05:09:21 AM
595 Views
Well, yeah. They're knowledgable and deadly in person. Generalship doesn't come into it.
- 04/10/2009 12:09:50 AM
570 Views
nope
- 01/10/2009 08:06:57 PM
753 Views
Tylee Kirgan, Birgitte, and one other, Egeanin
- 01/10/2009 09:47:00 PM
1024 Views
Birgitte's not a soldier though.
- 01/10/2009 10:10:50 PM
611 Views
She says she's not, but so does Mat.
- 01/10/2009 10:34:04 PM
536 Views
- 01/10/2009 10:34:04 PM
536 Views
Mat's not a soldier, either - he's a general
- 01/10/2009 10:51:29 PM
681 Views
Birgitte is too cautious to be better than an adequate tactician.
- 02/10/2009 04:22:45 AM
661 Views
My opinion
- 02/10/2009 01:30:12 AM
1035 Views
That's a poor excuse
- 02/10/2009 11:59:42 AM
562 Views
That's a poor argument
- 02/10/2009 04:02:53 PM
763 Views
Re: That's a poor argument
- 03/10/2009 04:26:55 AM
640 Views
I disagree
- 02/10/2009 04:26:28 PM
653 Views
Re: I disagree
- 02/10/2009 08:31:29 PM
851 Views
Oh, puh-lease.
- 02/10/2009 09:09:30 PM
801 Views
Re: Oh, puh-lease.
- 03/10/2009 04:52:37 PM
631 Views
Re: Oh, puh-lease.
- 05/10/2009 05:08:27 PM
3078 Views
I always know I've out-argued an idiot when they fall back on the tired old "RJ wanted it that way"
- 06/10/2009 04:42:11 AM
668 Views
And I can tell you're through when you've gotten to three+ insults per paragraph.
- 06/10/2009 05:46:24 PM
761 Views
Monday morning quarterbacking at its worst
- 04/10/2009 07:28:36 AM
718 Views
Men and football.
- 05/10/2009 04:49:35 PM
635 Views
She didn't kill anyone! Why SHOULD she feel guilty? She gave necessary orders.
- 06/10/2009 03:33:15 AM
727 Views