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You can't have it both ways.... fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 02/10/2009 06:47:21 AM

I'm saying they're generally difficult to kill, which they are. But the Forsaken themselves haven't managed to kill a single major protagonist. Sorry, I don't care that there's anarchy in Seanchan, or that Eben and Cabriana died. We're intimately involved with the main characters and our emotions are seated with them. There's nothing more poignant than Rand recalling fallen comrades who died fighting these people - but we'll never see that now, unless Leah gets your heart going. Too bad, you'd have to have your head read to join the Shadow... apart from the obvious reasons. Nynaeve can rest assured - with almost every Forsaken dead, and every darkfriend dead in a grave, she's the safest woman in the world.

Either they are competent and capable or lame. Just because you don't have an emotional response to the results of their competence, you cannot call them lame!

Fair enough, you don't care about millions of deaths, you want a few deaths among the fifteen or so major characters you're reading about. The rest of the deaths are insignificant to you. But a Forsaken's, or any villains, competence can hardly depend on the number of people he kills who you care about!

RJ has chosen, so far, to not have any of the major protagonists killed. Personally, I don't see why they have to die to make the story interesting, but that's a personal preference. You can criticize RJ for not having major characters killed. But why heap scorn and blame on the Forsaken? Many of them have died after exciting fights where they've certainly done a great job, and it is a combination of unfortunate (for them) circumstances that lead to their defeats.

And while you don't care, they have also spread chaos in the world, resulting in who knows how many deaths.

And all this despite being in a world that is far removed from the one they grew up in and having access to none of the technology they are used to.
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Are women really bad generals? Sidious - 01/10/2009 07:05:03 PM 1449 Views
I think that all we can conclude from this... Rand al'Thor - 01/10/2009 07:39:49 PM 744 Views
No. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 01/10/2009 07:41:35 PM 862 Views
Or RJ just loves stacking ridiculously unfavourable odds against the male Forsaken generals... Shannow - 01/10/2009 08:40:47 PM 963 Views
Lol... too true Sidious - 01/10/2009 09:32:29 PM 859 Views
And you guys whine about the lameness of RJ's villains? fionwe1987 - 01/10/2009 09:41:54 PM 848 Views
I still haven't seen proof of Demandred or Ishamael's "brilliance". RugbyPlayingAshaman - 01/10/2009 09:56:41 PM 700 Views
Ishamael's destroyed Civilization twice Rurouni_Kenshin - 02/10/2009 04:25:37 AM 671 Views
Re: Ishamael's destroyed Civilization twice RugbyPlayingAshaman - 02/10/2009 03:48:13 PM 595 Views
but you are difficult to please Sidious - 02/10/2009 05:10:13 AM 654 Views
Re: but you are difficult to please RugbyPlayingAshaman - 02/10/2009 03:46:56 PM 591 Views
Re: but you are difficult to please Sidious - 03/10/2009 06:17:21 AM 609 Views
But they are lame... they've done minimal damage to the Light Sidious - 02/10/2009 05:06:05 AM 601 Views
You can't have it both ways.... fionwe1987 - 02/10/2009 06:47:21 AM 682 Views
Why not? Sidious - 02/10/2009 08:45:35 AM 644 Views
Re: Why not? fionwe1987 - 02/10/2009 04:27:00 PM 541 Views
Re: Why not? Sidious - 03/10/2009 06:34:16 AM 678 Views
Re: Why not? fionwe1987 - 03/10/2009 07:40:16 AM 613 Views
Re: Why not? Sidious - 03/10/2009 05:07:51 PM 585 Views
Yeah Etzel - 01/10/2009 09:57:01 PM 629 Views
Re: Yeah nossy - 01/10/2009 10:40:28 PM 660 Views
I thought the same in the past... Etzel - 02/10/2009 07:01:18 AM 652 Views
Gah! Hate! nossy - 02/10/2009 04:11:49 PM 660 Views
Ah, come on... Etzel - 02/10/2009 04:41:37 PM 626 Views
No no, I was just being pouty that I haven't read the new stuff yet. nossy - 02/10/2009 05:01:15 PM 628 Views
Yeah, I can understand that! Etzel - 03/10/2009 12:23:25 PM 509 Views
Unless... Fanatic-Templar - 01/10/2009 10:49:55 PM 702 Views
Re: Unless... Sidious - 02/10/2009 05:07:14 AM 730 Views
Well, it's entirely hypothetical, Fanatic-Templar - 02/10/2009 06:31:32 AM 608 Views
Re: Or RJ just loves stacking ridiculously unfavourable odds against the male Forsaken generals... RugbyPlayingAshaman - 01/10/2009 09:51:30 PM 725 Views
What about Mat and Ituralde? Rurouni_Kenshin - 02/10/2009 04:28:49 AM 670 Views
Re: What about Mat and Ituralde? RugbyPlayingAshaman - 02/10/2009 03:52:24 PM 624 Views
Good points! Also, these "generals" haven't actually fielded any troops beetnemesis - 01/10/2009 11:23:40 PM 604 Views
Further... RugbyPlayingAshaman - 02/10/2009 12:14:44 AM 639 Views
But as individuals they are meant to be deadly too Sidious - 02/10/2009 05:09:21 AM 597 Views
Just one point ^_^ RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/10/2009 12:51:50 AM 611 Views
Well, yeah. They're knowledgable and deadly in person. Generalship doesn't come into it. beetnemesis - 04/10/2009 12:09:50 AM 572 Views
nope nossy - 01/10/2009 08:06:57 PM 754 Views
Re: nope Sidious - 01/10/2009 09:32:38 PM 818 Views
Tylee Kirgan, Birgitte, and one other, Egeanin NaClH2O - 01/10/2009 09:47:00 PM 1025 Views
Birgitte's not a soldier though. Darth_Katie - 01/10/2009 10:10:50 PM 613 Views
She says she's not, but so does Mat. nossy - 01/10/2009 10:34:04 PM 538 Views
Mat's not a soldier, either - he's a general RugbyPlayingAshaman - 01/10/2009 10:51:29 PM 681 Views
Right, which was what we were discussing at first. nossy - 02/10/2009 04:13:43 PM 608 Views
Yeah, I'm supporting your point about them both being generals RugbyPlayingAshaman - 02/10/2009 06:10:31 PM 626 Views
true, but she does pretty good NaClH2O - 02/10/2009 01:06:03 AM 680 Views
Oooh I forgot she's in charge of Elayne's lady guards. Darth_Katie - 02/10/2009 03:22:57 AM 554 Views
Egeanin or Leilwin nossy - 01/10/2009 10:35:53 PM 749 Views
A ship captain is like a calvary general NaClH2O - 02/10/2009 01:24:37 AM 615 Views
Right. Cannoli - 02/10/2009 01:36:59 AM 597 Views
Well said. (And its short and to the point.) RabidWombat - 02/10/2009 03:54:23 AM 736 Views
Birgitte is too cautious to be better than an adequate tactician. RabidWombat - 02/10/2009 04:22:45 AM 661 Views
Isn't this more of an outgrowth or her respective specialty? RugbyPlayingAshaman - 07/10/2009 08:40:46 PM 568 Views
My opinion Cannoli - 02/10/2009 01:30:12 AM 1036 Views
That's a poor excuse rAndy aL - 02/10/2009 11:59:42 AM 563 Views
That's a poor argument Cannoli - 02/10/2009 04:02:53 PM 763 Views
Re: That's a poor argument rAndy aL - 03/10/2009 04:26:55 AM 640 Views
I disagree nossy - 02/10/2009 04:26:28 PM 655 Views
Re: I disagree Cannoli - 02/10/2009 08:31:29 PM 852 Views
Oh, puh-lease. nossy - 02/10/2009 09:09:30 PM 803 Views
Re: Oh, puh-lease. Cannoli - 03/10/2009 04:52:37 PM 632 Views
Re: Oh, puh-lease. NaClH2O - 03/10/2009 08:26:27 PM 522 Views
Re: Oh, puh-lease. nossy - 05/10/2009 05:08:27 PM 3078 Views
I always know I've out-argued an idiot when they fall back on the tired old "RJ wanted it that way" Cannoli - 06/10/2009 04:42:11 AM 670 Views
And I can tell you're through when you've gotten to three+ insults per paragraph. nossy - 06/10/2009 05:46:24 PM 761 Views
um nossy - 08/10/2009 07:36:52 PM 905 Views
Monday morning quarterbacking at its worst RabidWombat - 04/10/2009 07:28:36 AM 719 Views
Men and football. nossy - 05/10/2009 04:49:35 PM 636 Views
She didn't kill anyone! Why SHOULD she feel guilty? She gave necessary orders. Cannoli - 06/10/2009 03:33:15 AM 728 Views
It's the only thing men are allowed to do in Randland CupofDice - 02/10/2009 03:09:19 AM 645 Views
My thoughts LordPerrin - 02/10/2009 03:12:46 PM 577 Views
.... Fantasy - 04/10/2009 03:38:44 AM 563 Views
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