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Re: Hey, looks like I finally read it. Fanatic-Templar Send a noteboard - 20/08/2013 02:08:16 AM

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I barely look at this site anymore, but for you I'll make an exception.

Much obliged!


View original postLike you I usually liked Elayne enough, but I generally disliked what Sanderson did with her.

Jordan was unsure what he wanted her to do with Cairhien. He had noted down she might claim the nation on her own before TG, or that she was forced to accept that Rand handed it to her as part of his treaty at Merrilor. Obviously he hadn't developed this much, and Sanderson (who needed filler because of the book split) came up with this unconvincing way to make her claim the throne, and like most of his forays into WOT politics it was too simplistic and a let down


I always hoped that Galad would end up with Cairhien. Cairhien and the Whitecloaks both use the sign of the Sun, and Galad was Taringail's eldest child. But mostly I just thought it would be hilarious to have what is essentially the most straightforward individual in the series ruling the nation of excessive meandering subtleties. It would have fit in nicely with their complete inability to deal with Rand back in The Great Hunt.


View original post(much like the resolution to the Tower conflict, for which RJ had written essentially dialogues for Egwene, which Brandon ended up using in different scenes than planned as he spit the dinner with Elaida in two. It looks like RJ was planning a much shorter "let's raise the stakes" Egwene's story line. There was only one dinner and it was on the day of her first scene, so she ended up in a cell almost immediately and met various people there, quite possibly in a mega scene similar to the one she had in KoD. So basically Elaida won, and Egwene had to move pieces on the board from her cell, until the Hall finally agreed to move and force Elaida to release her. That was the long battle of wits. The Seanchan attack did the rest.

That sounds interesting, though I have to wonder how nobody would monitor who came to visit her. Then again, with the complete distrust that was the Tower's attitude at the time, it might well have worked. Would Egwene still have fought off the Seanchan by her lonesome, or was she supposed to get evacuated before the attack?


View original postThis was one of the more interesting aspects of the confrontation, that and Rand refusing to engage beyond making Demandred believe he was leading.

It almost felt like a coincidence though, the way it happened just from Rand helping out wherever he could. I get the impression that there should have something more to keep Demandred distracted. Maybe Logain doing something. Or perhaps Narishma.


View original postWhich of course would never have happened if not for the fact of the book split.

Oh, I know. Until this book I still believed Graendal was supposed to die in Rand's attack, Graendal's storyline in Towers of Midnight being so absurd I couldn't believe it was actually planned.

So... if anybody reads this who argued with me about Graendal surviving the balefire, then I am ready to admit I was wrong now .


View original postIn a "one book" version, Graendal would still have been busy with Rand. It's was always very clearly Cyndane RJ was planning to use against Perrin (she would have used the opportunity that Moridin had tasked her to kill Perrin... to hide from her boss she intended to use him). Brandon would have had to devise a way to hide the fact it was her until she finally reveals herself (as Lanfear) to Perrin (again, this was only necessary not to give away too much of the Lanfear/Perrin story line in AMOL... Jordan was quite the expert at obscuring Lanfear's motives and would not have needed all that in a one book version).

Hmm, now that I think of it, has any Forsaken other than Lanfear ever used the Portal Stones? That might have been intended as a hint.


View original postThat's my major gripe with AMOL: the military aspects were way overdone, and boring beside.

And yet I still lost entire armies. Aside from Murandy, or largely devastated countries like Arad Doman, Ghealdan and Cairhien, I don't recall the forces of Tear or Illian ever showing up anywhere (aside from their elite units). Those are two of the most powerful nations in the Westlands, surely they should have had more screen time. Actually, I think Ghealdanin and Domani troops are mentioned at some point


View original postTo my taste Sanderson's TG was too much military history and not quite enough WOT-style character drama.

Hmm, I don't think I've ever read any military histories about specific battles. Those few I've read were about entire conflicts, and largely dealt with logistics and global strategy, not tactics.


View original postExactly my thought too. I was very disappointed to virtually not have a single POV from DF during TG... what do people like Alviarin thought of it? Could we please have a POV of Siuan about what happened to Bryne? Etc.

Oh, I didn't even think of that. Actually, all of the Great Captains were pretty much forgotten after they were relieved of command. Bryne and Bashere were only remembered long enough for them to die. I don't think Agelmar is ever mentioned again.


View original postThis has been a major point of criticism at the time of release.

You're right: Brandon has severely underplayed the OP factor (and cut arbitrarily (and without even a rationale behin dit) channeler numbers by the hundreds and thousands in place... each Aiel Clan had several hundred WO who could channel, for e.g. (the Shaido alone had 500). Aviendha should have had a whole army of WO, not a handful and being forced to rely on Cadsuane's followers).

My theory on this is that again it comes from Sanderson not mastering enough early modern military matters to take his ease and enter the speculative zone by factoring massive numbers of channelers of someone else's magic system into it. So he mostly used them episodically for "feats" and such (much as he does in his own books), or for Ayyad vs. AS etc. He didn't truly integrated channelers with the rest. His "advisors" most likely had troubles juggling with them while attempting to script an early modern battle too. It's really something only Jordan would have been totally comfortable to do, but that doesn't change the disappointment on how this was handled.


Wow, I hadn't realised how many Wise Ones there would be. That's actually pretty ridiculous when comparing to the White Tower's numbers. Though I guess it serves to illustrate how much the Aes Sedai shot themselves in the foot with their recruiting practices. The numbers of Novices found by the Salidar Aes Sedai is well established as being massive.

But even the White Tower's numbers make Demandred's boast of four hundred Ayyad sound absurd.


View original postSanderson said the Murandians left.. off-screen.

He basically brought them to Merrilor to deflate the Roedran red-herring, which he did in a poor way. He really should have left them to sit the LB at home, if you ask me!


Heh, I expected them to just "be there", maybe have some effect on Talmane's passages or something. I don't really think anybody should have been sitting at home for the Last Battle. Actually, now that I think of it the opening passage with Jarid Saighan's men deserting him to fight at the last battle could have worked with Roedran's Murandian army too.


View original postI like the madness and the idea he got fooled by prophecies. Personally I would have thrown a clue that Shara prophecies, like Seanchan's, have been tampered with by Ishamael...

Oh, that would've been nifty. I'd have liked to see more of him directly, though. There's this one chapter where he gets attended on by three women - Ayyad, I presume - and I immediately though of Rand's three wives. Probably just a coincidence, but if it wasn't I'd have enjoyed seeing more of it.


View original postVery thin. I was reminded of the character (was it Tom? or Lan? Or an AS to Egwene?) who called others stupid for believing Hawkwing stopped in the middle of battles to get into duels as the stories say he did. I thought it hilarious that Gawyn apparently didn't know this, but after the first joke it got old.

It's funny, I used to be Gawyn's defender on this board, but after The Gathering Storm, that flew out the window. Poor kid.


View original postI thought the last plot of Lanfear was one of the highlights of AMOL. In fact I think Perrin's story and Faile's, were some of the best handled in this book. Faile with all the misfits trying to bring back the Horn to Mat, bringing things full circle, was brilliant if not perfectly executed.

I hadn't even noticed that.


View original postDefinitely. Brandon ran wild with his f*cking Androl and it overshadowed the whole thing, pushing Logain almost out of the plot. That was very cheap.

Wait, Androl was 'his' character? That explains so much.


View original postShe got killed when Ayyad attacked Tuon's HQ. That was also Brandon's invention: there was absolutely nothing about Siuan in the LB in RJ's notes (it's probably the reason why Brandon chose to have Egwene push her aside). All he had to even indicate she was there was the GC stuff. It's Harriet who got the idea that the Viewing "if you are separated clause" wasn't yet over with what happened in the Tower and she told Brandon to kill Siuan. She found it more logical, since something bad happened to Bryne.

Eh, maybe it could have been brought in so that it made sense, but as it was it felt pretty random to me.


View original postWell, that depends on whose predictions! I've argued for years Cadsuane would be there in RJ's last scene!

Well, clearly you have a much better understanding of this series than I do .

The first rule of being a ninja is "do no harm". Unless you intend to do harm, then do lots of harm.
~Master Splinter

Victorious in Bergioyn's legendary 'Reverse Mafia'. *MySmiley*
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