Just finished Knife of Dreams in my reread and apparently, as of the confrontation with Semi in Altara, Narishma is the strongest of the AM with Rand...because of this, I tend to agree with you that Narishma is probably going to end up near Forsaken strength. He must be above 50, at this point, if he's stronger than Flinn, with more room yet to grow. I guess that makes sense, though, considering how men seem to grow in leaps and bounds; he could easily go from the low 20s to 50 in a couple months with that sort of growth.
As far as Flinn goes, I know that Talent and strength are different, but we do know that at least in a few cases, they are related. Traveling, for instance, has correlations with strength, and we see that Nynaeve is one of the best at Healing. I'm not saying that that HAS to be the case with Flinn, of course, but I wouldn't be surprised if his strength had something to do with it.
With Logain and Taim...I can see it both ways. I won't even try to dispute that they're Forsaken strength, but I always figured they were slightly below the upper-tier guys like Aginor and Demandred (and on that note, where do we see that Rand matched Aginor in EotW and Ishy in TGH? As far as I can remember, he never directly channeled against Ishy there, and he only faced off against Aginor with the aid of the Eye).
As far as Flinn goes, I know that Talent and strength are different, but we do know that at least in a few cases, they are related. Traveling, for instance, has correlations with strength, and we see that Nynaeve is one of the best at Healing. I'm not saying that that HAS to be the case with Flinn, of course, but I wouldn't be surprised if his strength had something to do with it.
With Logain and Taim...I can see it both ways. I won't even try to dispute that they're Forsaken strength, but I always figured they were slightly below the upper-tier guys like Aginor and Demandred (and on that note, where do we see that Rand matched Aginor in EotW and Ishy in TGH? As far as I can remember, he never directly channeled against Ishy there, and he only faced off against Aginor with the aid of the Eye).
Aginor destroyed himself attempting to channel too much of the Eye's power, meanwhile Rand survived it. As for Ishy v. Rand it's clear that Rand was in the weight class even if they didn't have an actual OP duel. The real point here is that Rand was at Forsaken male strength basically from the beginning of the series. If he had not been he would have been destroyed very quickly.
If we had to make it academic, I'd say that the Eye was made to force Rand to his full potential within minutes... That's why so many people died to create it. It thus allowed a channeler to go from zero to maximum, which is why Aginor overreached and died. Rand could draw 100 while Aginor could draw 95, which also explains why he could take it from Aginor.
Unfortunately Aginor also used up a large part of the Eye before Rand stole it from him. I think Rand was pushed to about 80 before the Eye was used up. After that his strength increases were very well portrayed. He was well past any modern woman in the series from book 2. He equalled Asmodean in book 4, Rahvin in 5, and Sammael in 7 (he exceeded Osan'gar then too).
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I really hate to bring up strength in the OP, but thankfully it doesn't regard Egwene or any women.
04/12/2012 06:01:45 AM
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My thoughts
04/12/2012 07:15:44 AM
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90 is REALLY high
04/12/2012 07:25:15 AM
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Couple of things ... **reminder that this is a lot of speculation**
04/12/2012 04:29:50 PM
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Narishma is definitely stronger, you're right.
07/12/2012 03:00:53 AM
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He was stronger than Aginor in order to channel the power of the Eye
07/12/2012 03:00:10 PM
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No I don't think so
07/12/2012 04:13:48 PM
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I'd say more than 80
07/12/2012 07:07:32 PM
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81 then
07/12/2012 08:11:34 PM
- 701 Views
and that's just YOUR theory Sidius
07/12/2012 09:13:42 PM
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Aginors defeat could be a result of multiple factors. So can Ishmaels
07/12/2012 01:24:18 PM
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Regardless, Rand was clearly in the same strength category when Aginor and he faced off
07/12/2012 03:03:04 PM
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I disagree.
07/12/2012 06:55:43 PM
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Aginor burned out trying to use the Eye in the real world
07/12/2012 07:12:44 PM
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Re: Aginor burned out trying to use the Eye in the real world
07/12/2012 07:51:37 PM
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he faced Asmodean strength for strength before Rahvin
07/12/2012 09:23:42 PM
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Just to be a bitch
07/12/2012 10:17:11 PM
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He didn't face Asmodean he chased him and wrestled him over a sa'angreal.
10/12/2012 11:16:18 PM
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Asmo hurled plenty of stuff at Rand during the "Chase" it wasnt all that much different
11/12/2012 03:16:36 AM
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I disagree with your plenty cause no one was TRYING to crush him. *NM*
11/12/2012 07:13:12 PM
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as I said before ... your interpretations are yours to have ... as are mine. *NM*
11/12/2012 09:16:36 PM
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think youre misjudgjng the benefits of the link. they dont have to add up to 90.
07/12/2012 12:34:59 PM
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There is also no why to tell if Flinn hit Demandred with all the strength available to him either
07/12/2012 03:05:38 PM
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the "circle" was stronger but the individuals weren't *NM*
07/12/2012 06:58:38 PM
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that's what I just said *NM*
07/12/2012 07:23:34 PM
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that was not clear *NM*
07/12/2012 07:43:54 PM
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*shrug*
07/12/2012 09:25:00 PM
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Re: *shrug*
10/12/2012 11:27:42 PM
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If I had said the individuals in the circle added to Dmandreds strength perhaps
11/12/2012 03:28:23 AM
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in the context of this discussion you did not distinguish between the effective strength and
11/12/2012 07:10:48 PM
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whatever ... didn't think it was necessary ... and with that I'm done
11/12/2012 09:16:03 PM
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About Rand's strength... an important quote is being ignored:
08/12/2012 12:37:38 AM
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Perhaps
08/12/2012 01:01:21 AM
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Re: Perhaps
08/12/2012 02:06:39 AM
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Like I said ... Could be
08/12/2012 02:33:43 AM
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I disagree...
08/12/2012 04:53:09 AM
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Re: I disagree...
08/12/2012 05:20:08 AM
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I disagree again!
08/12/2012 05:49:15 AM
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Probably
08/12/2012 02:46:15 PM
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Always thought the forsaken didn't really know much about Rand
08/12/2012 02:38:08 AM
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And they had plenty of spies around him and clearly knew that he managed
08/12/2012 02:43:15 AM
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Re: And they had plenty of spies around him and clearly knew that he managed
08/12/2012 05:34:54 AM
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Who can say. Graendal wraps them so deep in compulsion that she can dig
08/12/2012 05:42:39 AM
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I don't think they could have had a clear idea of his strength eary in the series...
08/12/2012 09:34:36 AM
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Re: I don't think they could have had a clear idea of his strength eary in the series...
08/12/2012 02:54:08 PM
- 700 Views
Re: About Rand's strength... an important quote is being ignored:
11/12/2012 11:36:51 PM
- 749 Views