Active Users:1073 Time:15/11/2024 02:14:55 AM
Wow. Shannow Send a noteboard - 19/11/2012 03:53:47 PM
You can't really substantiate that opinion. There are several quotes stating that Ishamael equalled Lews Therin in power.


But none of them is verbatim, all of them are interpretations from AOL texts by third agers, and we cban't be sure the texts themselves truly referred to his OP raw strength and not to the power he wielded in the Shadow being comparable to LTT's in the Light. The other problem is that we know this comes from AS interpretation of AOL texts (or worse, Breaking and post-Breaking ones), and today's AS judge "power" on raw saidar potential, whereas all the signs in the series suggest AOLers also include skills when they speak of an Aes Sedai's power (they differentiate between strength and global power), that raw strength is only a factor in their global description (which only makes sense in a world full of angreal...). Mierin was as strong as any woman, yet she was only an Aes Sedai of middling power who never achieved anything worthy of a third name honorific. Her OP skills musn't be so amazing for someone as strong, she was a good OP scientist, good enough to enter the Collam Daan, but by the standards of her Age not remarkable, not enough to get any public attention for her skills. Just that might suggest she's not as powerful as LTT, that her mastery over saidar isn't enough to match his strength in saidin by higher efficiency.

The problem with Ishamael being so strong in saidin is that if he is, combined with his status as Nae'blis, it's extremely hard to understand why Demandred doesn't hate him just as much as he hates LTT. He envies Moridin's status, but nothing else. Demandred acts toward Moridin as if he is the stronger of the two.

Moridin is clearly strong, but I don't think we can be in any way certain of his exact strength, not even how he compares in raw strength to Demandred (who was second only to LTT) or Aginor (who had rare amazing skills in some areas that could very well taint his description as "powerful", unless we have a direct quote Dashiva matches Rand or almost in raw strength).



I've been saying this for ten years. Great to see you saying it so unexpectedly.

Totally agree.
Reply to message
How many standard deviations is Lanfear - 15/11/2012 06:04:39 PM 2071 Views
Well... - 15/11/2012 07:02:45 PM 1110 Views
Hmm... - 15/11/2012 07:25:34 PM 1206 Views
see we CAN agree on stuff - 15/11/2012 07:56:12 PM 1063 Views
- 18/11/2012 08:37:22 PM 957 Views
We've always been close with everything except the scale - 18/11/2012 10:29:07 PM 993 Views
Re: - 18/11/2012 11:07:17 PM 1163 Views
Re: - 19/11/2012 05:16:00 AM 989 Views
Re: - 19/11/2012 03:13:01 PM 995 Views
They only reject 37.5%, not 62.5% - 19/11/2012 03:19:19 PM 997 Views
Re: They only reject 37.5%, not 62.5% - 19/11/2012 04:01:43 PM 1204 Views
Re: They only reject 37.5%, not 62.5% - 19/11/2012 09:04:04 PM 950 Views
Hmmm... - 20/11/2012 02:08:40 AM 1016 Views
Perhaps, but Egwene is also being a bit dramatic in the scene as she managed - 20/11/2012 04:28:57 AM 974 Views
Nope... - 20/11/2012 03:13:13 PM 1025 Views
I believe she is being over dramatic - 20/11/2012 03:26:24 PM 923 Views
Keep believing that... - 20/11/2012 03:30:14 PM 1051 Views
*shrugs* - 20/11/2012 03:49:10 PM 1003 Views
Tired and forkroot are the same now? - 20/11/2012 03:55:22 PM 909 Views
No it's the literary device - 20/11/2012 04:04:28 PM 1029 Views
This is getting ridiculous... - 20/11/2012 04:43:13 PM 909 Views
You are missing my point completely - 20/11/2012 04:50:46 PM 870 Views
Impossible. Daigian is exactly 0.32SD below the mean - 19/11/2012 11:06:04 AM 973 Views
You keep saying that, but it is either a linear or a non-linear distribution - 19/11/2012 09:09:32 PM 1030 Views
That's the whole point. Thanks for finally seeing it. - 19/11/2012 09:43:27 PM 991 Views
keep believing that ... but you making up numbers isn't really relevant *NM* - 20/11/2012 04:29:44 AM 653 Views
Please show me a number that is made up. The 0.32SD for Daigian is a rule of statistics. - 20/11/2012 07:15:48 AM 954 Views
Go read Fionwe's post about it *NM* - 20/11/2012 02:33:19 PM 668 Views
Is that before or after she started juicing? - 15/11/2012 11:04:14 PM 967 Views
Wouldn't it be 1 in 105 million? - 21/11/2012 04:56:19 PM 819 Views
Are you sure that it is a normal distribution? - 16/11/2012 04:21:02 PM 1043 Views
Ugh. I hate power level discussions. For real world applications, it should be kind of meaningless - 16/11/2012 10:28:49 PM 943 Views
I don't really agree - 18/11/2012 08:40:53 PM 888 Views
Perhaps, but we've seen that a MUCH weaker Channeler can win in a duel - 19/11/2012 09:13:48 PM 959 Views
Re: Perhaps, but we've seen that a MUCH weaker Channeler can win in a duel - 20/11/2012 08:10:01 AM 930 Views
probably ... Lanfear/Cyndane is clearly remarkably skilled - 20/11/2012 02:35:09 PM 971 Views
Since I've proven that it's not a normal distribution in units of absolute strength, SDs don't apply - 17/11/2012 07:48:21 PM 989 Views
You have proven nothing, except that you have an opinion *NM* - 18/11/2012 02:21:35 AM 636 Views
You simply don't get it. It is mathematically a fact. There is no opinion involved. - 18/11/2012 02:19:40 PM 833 Views
Only because you've assigned numeric values. That you created. - 18/11/2012 02:40:51 PM 958 Views
It doesn't matter what figure you use... - 18/11/2012 03:01:56 PM 837 Views
What if Daigian is one third Lanfear's strength? - 18/11/2012 04:37:58 PM 979 Views
We have a limit for Daigian's strength, as you well know. - 18/11/2012 05:41:49 PM 931 Views
Are you kidding me? - 18/11/2012 09:07:38 PM 1090 Views
Sure you can - 18/11/2012 10:09:31 PM 991 Views
Re: Sure you can - 18/11/2012 10:54:50 PM 940 Views
You're right, though its 37.5% - 19/11/2012 12:21:29 AM 905 Views
Oops, typo! - 19/11/2012 02:54:25 AM 975 Views
Again, not possible, due to Daigian being just 0.3SD below the Mean - 19/11/2012 08:37:01 AM 928 Views
Egwene is definitely not 2x Amys... - 19/11/2012 04:05:12 PM 870 Views
Re: Egwene is definitely not 2x Amys... - 19/11/2012 05:55:02 PM 798 Views
Egwene is about as strong as Melaine and Amys combined - 19/11/2012 09:19:50 PM 915 Views
Re: Egwene is about as strong as Melaine and Amys combined - 20/11/2012 02:11:26 AM 944 Views
Forkroot in every case - 20/11/2012 04:32:26 AM 924 Views
No! - 20/11/2012 03:15:16 PM 907 Views
I'm not going to go re-read the books to you on this - 20/11/2012 03:39:46 PM 923 Views
You need to read it for yourself, since you're completely confused. - 20/11/2012 03:54:26 PM 888 Views
Not going to argue this with you. - 20/11/2012 04:09:44 PM 861 Views
Your own example disproved your point... - 20/11/2012 04:39:25 PM 952 Views
let's see, she's both asleep and would need hours to regain her strength - 20/11/2012 04:43:17 PM 848 Views
Enough! - 20/11/2012 05:04:06 PM 936 Views
LOL ... whatever. You go on believing that ... no one else sees it this way. *NM* - 20/11/2012 05:20:52 PM 623 Views
What a brilliant argument! - 20/11/2012 05:25:18 PM 969 Views
this is why I refuse to continue this debate - 20/11/2012 05:31:11 PM 886 Views
Re: Your own example disproved your point... - 20/11/2012 05:10:15 PM 981 Views
Barasine + Katerine isn't that much less than - 20/11/2012 05:26:31 PM 983 Views
Re: Barasine + Katerine isn't that much less than - 20/11/2012 05:31:50 PM 923 Views
Re: Barasine + Katerine isn't that much less than - 20/11/2012 05:42:53 PM 919 Views
Excuse me? - 20/11/2012 05:28:48 PM 974 Views
see we can agree on the relative strength of Egwene v. Forsaken - 20/11/2012 05:35:07 PM 923 Views
??? - 20/11/2012 05:37:01 PM 1001 Views
2 middling sisters - 20/11/2012 05:45:27 PM 943 Views
Re: Egwene is definitely not 2x Amys... - 20/11/2012 02:26:47 AM 857 Views
Re: Egwene is definitely not 2x Amys... - 20/11/2012 09:03:40 AM 905 Views
Re: Egwene is definitely not 2x Amys... - 20/11/2012 02:59:08 PM 941 Views
None of this is backed by any evidence... - 20/11/2012 03:24:12 PM 858 Views
who said Cadsuane was 1.5x Moiraine or more? - 20/11/2012 04:03:13 PM 860 Views
Nope... - 20/11/2012 04:41:35 PM 902 Views
wrong - 20/11/2012 04:48:50 PM 835 Views
My bad. Mized up 1/3 and 2/3. - 20/11/2012 05:05:05 PM 927 Views
gotcha *NM* - 20/11/2012 05:46:21 PM 583 Views
Better evidence? LOL! - 20/11/2012 03:18:55 PM 907 Views
Huh? How did you come to that conclusion? - 20/11/2012 04:40:56 PM 899 Views
Exactly *NM* - 20/11/2012 04:55:28 PM 869 Views
BEcause Cadsuane is close on the heels of Egwene? - 20/11/2012 05:10:50 PM 816 Views
I'm not arguing that. I agree that Cadsuane is pretty close to Egwene - 20/11/2012 05:50:34 PM 921 Views
Re: Better evidence? LOL! - 20/11/2012 05:00:47 PM 829 Views
Interesting, but let's go with your figures... - 19/11/2012 06:54:54 AM 971 Views
Indeed - 19/11/2012 08:16:44 AM 1010 Views
Rand is sort of a special case - 20/11/2012 04:25:02 AM 835 Views
Regarding Mesaana... - 20/11/2012 08:42:56 AM 908 Views
You continue to mix two things - 20/11/2012 03:24:44 PM 837 Views
No - 20/11/2012 04:54:19 PM 1058 Views
You are mistaken - 20/11/2012 05:04:40 PM 918 Views
Yes she did Darius! - 20/11/2012 05:27:36 PM 854 Views
Yet there is no duel - 20/11/2012 06:01:17 PM 837 Views
Explain the .3xSD thing to me... - 19/11/2012 04:58:57 PM 1077 Views
Probably, but the AS have no idea what 37.5% means - 19/11/2012 02:59:26 AM 862 Views
It's irrelevant - 19/11/2012 03:46:42 AM 931 Views
Agreed. Daigian is the marker of the absolute bottom of Aes Sedai strength. - 19/11/2012 06:55:41 AM 898 Views
Daigian - 19/11/2012 08:12:19 AM 919 Views
It is a direct marker due to RJ's quote - 19/11/2012 08:50:26 AM 943 Views
You missed my point - 19/11/2012 09:08:42 AM 879 Views
Re: You missed my point - 19/11/2012 02:18:33 PM 949 Views
Asmodean would never have made the comment about 13 weakest AS - 20/11/2012 04:41:11 AM 886 Views
Re: Asmodean would never have made the comment about 13 weakest AS - 20/11/2012 09:07:49 AM 862 Views
Which would make an average AS around a 30 - 20/11/2012 04:58:56 PM 734 Views
Re: Sure you can - 19/11/2012 09:22:09 AM 1007 Views
Care to explain this... - 19/11/2012 05:06:28 PM 848 Views
Indeed - 20/11/2012 07:16:37 AM 1069 Views
Explained far better than I ever could. Bravo. - 20/11/2012 07:30:29 AM 884 Views
Well duh. - 20/11/2012 02:57:24 PM 992 Views
Incorrect. - 20/11/2012 04:28:07 PM 978 Views
No - 20/11/2012 04:44:16 PM 954 Views
Re: No - 20/11/2012 04:48:36 PM 947 Views
That depends... - 20/11/2012 05:18:46 PM 818 Views
Re: That depends... - 20/11/2012 05:31:03 PM 1244 Views
You're integrating without lower limits... - 20/11/2012 02:55:06 PM 929 Views
Re: You're integrating without lower limits... - 20/11/2012 04:37:57 PM 960 Views
It matters. - 20/11/2012 05:22:40 PM 925 Views
We are not talking about a normal distribution in any case - 20/11/2012 04:44:24 AM 771 Views
Re: We are not talking about a normal distribution in any case - 20/11/2012 07:02:47 AM 961 Views
You must tell me of this special math... - 20/11/2012 03:10:09 PM 858 Views
Re: You must tell me of this special math... - 20/11/2012 04:29:40 PM 894 Views
Morghase is a placeholder... - 20/11/2012 04:45:42 PM 962 Views
Re: Morghase is a placeholder... - 20/11/2012 04:49:54 PM 1148 Views
Why? - 20/11/2012 05:23:29 PM 942 Views
Re: Why? - 20/11/2012 05:36:45 PM 1115 Views
Well... - 18/11/2012 08:43:59 PM 994 Views
Re: Well... - 19/11/2012 03:40:44 PM 975 Views
Wow. - 19/11/2012 03:53:47 PM 1019 Views
Re: Wow. - 19/11/2012 04:26:09 PM 1028 Views
Some points - 19/11/2012 06:03:00 PM 1030 Views
Well then you're both wrong I'm afraid - 19/11/2012 06:09:36 PM 870 Views
Re: Well then you're both wrong I'm afraid - 19/11/2012 07:42:58 PM 771 Views
this is why I think all of the Forsaken are very close in Power - 20/11/2012 04:51:20 AM 965 Views
Agreed - 20/11/2012 08:13:37 AM 995 Views
probably - 20/11/2012 06:18:45 PM 878 Views
Re: this is why I think all of the Forsaken are very close in Power - 20/11/2012 02:45:18 PM 906 Views
I think RJ went out of his way to keep strength a bit of a mystery - 20/11/2012 08:42:44 PM 914 Views
Indeed... - 21/11/2012 05:44:18 PM 888 Views
I agree - 22/11/2012 01:43:02 AM 1137 Views
Math gurus...Is it possible to find the missing variable... - 21/11/2012 05:12:24 PM 914 Views
the problem is that the Mean is not going to tell us much really - 22/11/2012 02:55:03 AM 981 Views
Re: the problem is that the Mean is not going to tell us much really - 22/11/2012 03:15:33 AM 1267 Views
I do not think you can calculate the Mean without knowing the Units of Power - 22/11/2012 03:53:59 AM 1069 Views
Re: Math gurus...Is it possible to find the missing variable... - 23/11/2012 02:59:12 PM 1197 Views
Disregard this post *NM* - 23/11/2012 03:02:24 PM 839 Views

Reply to Message