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Re: DomA Send a noteboard - 19/11/2012 03:13:01 PM
Morgase is probably as rare as Lanfear.


Unless she's perhaps not the weakest woman possible, just the weakest known. There may be levels (I'm not referring to the 21...) below Morgase where the ability isn't even really quantifiable by a channeler.

It's just that no Aes Sedai mentionning Morgase's strength did comment that it was unique or almost unique to find a woman so weak.

But yeah, it seems more likely women like Morgase are as rare as women around Lanfear's strength. Sorilea's strength is likely to be fairly rare too, if not as rare as Morgase's (perhaps more comparable to the rarity of women like Graendal).



True, but they did describe her ability as negligible. We already know that women can't detect strength with extreme precision (they describe dueling as the only real way to know if two similar women are really equal). It's likely that Morgase gives off such a weak resonance that discriminating higher and lower levels is impossible. It's all "negligible" until it's "not negligible".


Yup, but of course to AS anyone without the spark falling short of the benchmark strength to become an Accepted is "negligible". Hard to be sure Morgase really the weakest possible, a mirror of Lanfear at the other end.

The problem is women like Morgase aren't even "awakened" by AS if they're not sparkers. They did for Morgase out of a purely political agenda. They didn't invest much efforts in teaching her - they went through the motions and gave her the ring and that was it - and we know Morgase's problem is that she has a personality not naturally prone to anything like "surrendering". That would have made it hard for her, like Nynaeve for instance. I suspect her difficulties embracing the source have nothing at all to do with her puny strength and all to do with the AS giving up too soon. Then, obviously, Morgase would have had tons of problems training because she can't access enough saidar to do much of anything, and so she couldn't progress. In the AOL such a woman would have most likely been given a very low strength angreal to train and progress, then a bigger and a bigger. We know low strength people can become skilled weavers (Sorilea or Androl are examples). I'm pretty sure if Morgase had been born in the AOL, with an angreal like Moiraine's (the new one) she might have outshined most of today's AS's skills... If Elayne ever learns the making of angreal, she might very well make a decent channeler out of her mother one day.

Considering the rarity of some talents, it's pretty absurd the WT has set its standards so high that they reject 62.5% of women. There's no telling what talents women like Morgase might have. Even if a woman like Sorilea is deemed too weak to be full Aes Sedai, essentially out of fear for the Tower's image, she'd have been a formidable addition to the Tower, and given she's a fast learner and can already form complex weaves she's not strong enough to make work..she'd only need an angreal to be a good teacher, for instance.

This message last edited by DomA on 19/11/2012 at 03:15:57 PM
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How many standard deviations is Lanfear - 15/11/2012 06:04:39 PM 2203 Views
Well... - 15/11/2012 07:02:45 PM 1209 Views
Hmm... - 15/11/2012 07:25:34 PM 1339 Views
see we CAN agree on stuff - 15/11/2012 07:56:12 PM 1174 Views
- 18/11/2012 08:37:22 PM 1048 Views
We've always been close with everything except the scale - 18/11/2012 10:29:07 PM 1093 Views
Re: - 18/11/2012 11:07:17 PM 1264 Views
Re: - 19/11/2012 05:16:00 AM 1097 Views
Re: - 19/11/2012 03:13:01 PM 1087 Views
They only reject 37.5%, not 62.5% - 19/11/2012 03:19:19 PM 1106 Views
Re: They only reject 37.5%, not 62.5% - 19/11/2012 04:01:43 PM 1306 Views
Re: They only reject 37.5%, not 62.5% - 19/11/2012 09:04:04 PM 1058 Views
Hmmm... - 20/11/2012 02:08:40 AM 1131 Views
Perhaps, but Egwene is also being a bit dramatic in the scene as she managed - 20/11/2012 04:28:57 AM 1078 Views
Nope... - 20/11/2012 03:13:13 PM 1131 Views
I believe she is being over dramatic - 20/11/2012 03:26:24 PM 1024 Views
Keep believing that... - 20/11/2012 03:30:14 PM 1163 Views
*shrugs* - 20/11/2012 03:49:10 PM 1109 Views
Tired and forkroot are the same now? - 20/11/2012 03:55:22 PM 1011 Views
No it's the literary device - 20/11/2012 04:04:28 PM 1144 Views
This is getting ridiculous... - 20/11/2012 04:43:13 PM 1017 Views
You are missing my point completely - 20/11/2012 04:50:46 PM 982 Views
Impossible. Daigian is exactly 0.32SD below the mean - 19/11/2012 11:06:04 AM 1085 Views
You keep saying that, but it is either a linear or a non-linear distribution - 19/11/2012 09:09:32 PM 1138 Views
That's the whole point. Thanks for finally seeing it. - 19/11/2012 09:43:27 PM 1095 Views
keep believing that ... but you making up numbers isn't really relevant *NM* - 20/11/2012 04:29:44 AM 694 Views
Please show me a number that is made up. The 0.32SD for Daigian is a rule of statistics. - 20/11/2012 07:15:48 AM 1051 Views
Go read Fionwe's post about it *NM* - 20/11/2012 02:33:19 PM 696 Views
Is that before or after she started juicing? - 15/11/2012 11:04:14 PM 1082 Views
Wouldn't it be 1 in 105 million? - 21/11/2012 04:56:19 PM 933 Views
Are you sure that it is a normal distribution? - 16/11/2012 04:21:02 PM 1146 Views
Ugh. I hate power level discussions. For real world applications, it should be kind of meaningless - 16/11/2012 10:28:49 PM 1038 Views
I don't really agree - 18/11/2012 08:40:53 PM 1011 Views
Perhaps, but we've seen that a MUCH weaker Channeler can win in a duel - 19/11/2012 09:13:48 PM 1059 Views
Re: Perhaps, but we've seen that a MUCH weaker Channeler can win in a duel - 20/11/2012 08:10:01 AM 1032 Views
probably ... Lanfear/Cyndane is clearly remarkably skilled - 20/11/2012 02:35:09 PM 1073 Views
Since I've proven that it's not a normal distribution in units of absolute strength, SDs don't apply - 17/11/2012 07:48:21 PM 1087 Views
You have proven nothing, except that you have an opinion *NM* - 18/11/2012 02:21:35 AM 668 Views
You simply don't get it. It is mathematically a fact. There is no opinion involved. - 18/11/2012 02:19:40 PM 924 Views
Only because you've assigned numeric values. That you created. - 18/11/2012 02:40:51 PM 1056 Views
It doesn't matter what figure you use... - 18/11/2012 03:01:56 PM 934 Views
What if Daigian is one third Lanfear's strength? - 18/11/2012 04:37:58 PM 1090 Views
We have a limit for Daigian's strength, as you well know. - 18/11/2012 05:41:49 PM 1057 Views
Are you kidding me? - 18/11/2012 09:07:38 PM 1186 Views
Sure you can - 18/11/2012 10:09:31 PM 1087 Views
Re: Sure you can - 18/11/2012 10:54:50 PM 1058 Views
You're right, though its 37.5% - 19/11/2012 12:21:29 AM 1011 Views
Oops, typo! - 19/11/2012 02:54:25 AM 1066 Views
Again, not possible, due to Daigian being just 0.3SD below the Mean - 19/11/2012 08:37:01 AM 1020 Views
Egwene is definitely not 2x Amys... - 19/11/2012 04:05:12 PM 944 Views
Re: Egwene is definitely not 2x Amys... - 19/11/2012 05:55:02 PM 901 Views
Egwene is about as strong as Melaine and Amys combined - 19/11/2012 09:19:50 PM 1023 Views
Re: Egwene is about as strong as Melaine and Amys combined - 20/11/2012 02:11:26 AM 1056 Views
Forkroot in every case - 20/11/2012 04:32:26 AM 1023 Views
No! - 20/11/2012 03:15:16 PM 1004 Views
I'm not going to go re-read the books to you on this - 20/11/2012 03:39:46 PM 1034 Views
You need to read it for yourself, since you're completely confused. - 20/11/2012 03:54:26 PM 988 Views
Not going to argue this with you. - 20/11/2012 04:09:44 PM 950 Views
Your own example disproved your point... - 20/11/2012 04:39:25 PM 1065 Views
let's see, she's both asleep and would need hours to regain her strength - 20/11/2012 04:43:17 PM 964 Views
Enough! - 20/11/2012 05:04:06 PM 1031 Views
LOL ... whatever. You go on believing that ... no one else sees it this way. *NM* - 20/11/2012 05:20:52 PM 660 Views
What a brilliant argument! - 20/11/2012 05:25:18 PM 1045 Views
this is why I refuse to continue this debate - 20/11/2012 05:31:11 PM 985 Views
Re: Your own example disproved your point... - 20/11/2012 05:10:15 PM 1073 Views
Barasine + Katerine isn't that much less than - 20/11/2012 05:26:31 PM 1066 Views
Re: Barasine + Katerine isn't that much less than - 20/11/2012 05:31:50 PM 1037 Views
Re: Barasine + Katerine isn't that much less than - 20/11/2012 05:42:53 PM 1026 Views
Excuse me? - 20/11/2012 05:28:48 PM 1073 Views
see we can agree on the relative strength of Egwene v. Forsaken - 20/11/2012 05:35:07 PM 1035 Views
??? - 20/11/2012 05:37:01 PM 1141 Views
2 middling sisters - 20/11/2012 05:45:27 PM 1055 Views
Re: Egwene is definitely not 2x Amys... - 20/11/2012 02:26:47 AM 973 Views
Re: Egwene is definitely not 2x Amys... - 20/11/2012 09:03:40 AM 1009 Views
Re: Egwene is definitely not 2x Amys... - 20/11/2012 02:59:08 PM 1042 Views
None of this is backed by any evidence... - 20/11/2012 03:24:12 PM 972 Views
who said Cadsuane was 1.5x Moiraine or more? - 20/11/2012 04:03:13 PM 982 Views
Nope... - 20/11/2012 04:41:35 PM 995 Views
wrong - 20/11/2012 04:48:50 PM 933 Views
My bad. Mized up 1/3 and 2/3. - 20/11/2012 05:05:05 PM 1042 Views
gotcha *NM* - 20/11/2012 05:46:21 PM 627 Views
Better evidence? LOL! - 20/11/2012 03:18:55 PM 1022 Views
Huh? How did you come to that conclusion? - 20/11/2012 04:40:56 PM 1014 Views
Exactly *NM* - 20/11/2012 04:55:28 PM 973 Views
BEcause Cadsuane is close on the heels of Egwene? - 20/11/2012 05:10:50 PM 920 Views
I'm not arguing that. I agree that Cadsuane is pretty close to Egwene - 20/11/2012 05:50:34 PM 1031 Views
Re: Better evidence? LOL! - 20/11/2012 05:00:47 PM 933 Views
Interesting, but let's go with your figures... - 19/11/2012 06:54:54 AM 1056 Views
Indeed - 19/11/2012 08:16:44 AM 1114 Views
Rand is sort of a special case - 20/11/2012 04:25:02 AM 962 Views
Regarding Mesaana... - 20/11/2012 08:42:56 AM 1012 Views
You continue to mix two things - 20/11/2012 03:24:44 PM 937 Views
No - 20/11/2012 04:54:19 PM 1168 Views
You are mistaken - 20/11/2012 05:04:40 PM 1023 Views
Yes she did Darius! - 20/11/2012 05:27:36 PM 949 Views
Yet there is no duel - 20/11/2012 06:01:17 PM 948 Views
Explain the .3xSD thing to me... - 19/11/2012 04:58:57 PM 1182 Views
Probably, but the AS have no idea what 37.5% means - 19/11/2012 02:59:26 AM 970 Views
It's irrelevant - 19/11/2012 03:46:42 AM 1042 Views
Agreed. Daigian is the marker of the absolute bottom of Aes Sedai strength. - 19/11/2012 06:55:41 AM 1006 Views
Daigian - 19/11/2012 08:12:19 AM 1016 Views
It is a direct marker due to RJ's quote - 19/11/2012 08:50:26 AM 1039 Views
You missed my point - 19/11/2012 09:08:42 AM 968 Views
Re: You missed my point - 19/11/2012 02:18:33 PM 1055 Views
Asmodean would never have made the comment about 13 weakest AS - 20/11/2012 04:41:11 AM 980 Views
Re: Asmodean would never have made the comment about 13 weakest AS - 20/11/2012 09:07:49 AM 974 Views
Which would make an average AS around a 30 - 20/11/2012 04:58:56 PM 853 Views
Re: Sure you can - 19/11/2012 09:22:09 AM 1093 Views
Care to explain this... - 19/11/2012 05:06:28 PM 930 Views
Indeed - 20/11/2012 07:16:37 AM 1127 Views
Explained far better than I ever could. Bravo. - 20/11/2012 07:30:29 AM 981 Views
Well duh. - 20/11/2012 02:57:24 PM 1089 Views
Incorrect. - 20/11/2012 04:28:07 PM 1079 Views
No - 20/11/2012 04:44:16 PM 1057 Views
Re: No - 20/11/2012 04:48:36 PM 1040 Views
That depends... - 20/11/2012 05:18:46 PM 912 Views
Re: That depends... - 20/11/2012 05:31:03 PM 1327 Views
You're integrating without lower limits... - 20/11/2012 02:55:06 PM 1035 Views
Re: You're integrating without lower limits... - 20/11/2012 04:37:57 PM 1077 Views
It matters. - 20/11/2012 05:22:40 PM 1034 Views
We are not talking about a normal distribution in any case - 20/11/2012 04:44:24 AM 879 Views
Re: We are not talking about a normal distribution in any case - 20/11/2012 07:02:47 AM 1079 Views
You must tell me of this special math... - 20/11/2012 03:10:09 PM 955 Views
Re: You must tell me of this special math... - 20/11/2012 04:29:40 PM 1010 Views
Morghase is a placeholder... - 20/11/2012 04:45:42 PM 1092 Views
Re: Morghase is a placeholder... - 20/11/2012 04:49:54 PM 1246 Views
Why? - 20/11/2012 05:23:29 PM 1046 Views
Re: Why? - 20/11/2012 05:36:45 PM 1223 Views
Well... - 18/11/2012 08:43:59 PM 1084 Views
Re: Well... - 19/11/2012 03:40:44 PM 1066 Views
Wow. - 19/11/2012 03:53:47 PM 1089 Views
Re: Wow. - 19/11/2012 04:26:09 PM 1108 Views
Some points - 19/11/2012 06:03:00 PM 1148 Views
Well then you're both wrong I'm afraid - 19/11/2012 06:09:36 PM 990 Views
Re: Well then you're both wrong I'm afraid - 19/11/2012 07:42:58 PM 870 Views
this is why I think all of the Forsaken are very close in Power - 20/11/2012 04:51:20 AM 1083 Views
Agreed - 20/11/2012 08:13:37 AM 1115 Views
probably - 20/11/2012 06:18:45 PM 988 Views
Re: this is why I think all of the Forsaken are very close in Power - 20/11/2012 02:45:18 PM 999 Views
I think RJ went out of his way to keep strength a bit of a mystery - 20/11/2012 08:42:44 PM 1008 Views
Indeed... - 21/11/2012 05:44:18 PM 981 Views
I agree - 22/11/2012 01:43:02 AM 1231 Views
Math gurus...Is it possible to find the missing variable... - 21/11/2012 05:12:24 PM 1023 Views
the problem is that the Mean is not going to tell us much really - 22/11/2012 02:55:03 AM 1069 Views
Re: the problem is that the Mean is not going to tell us much really - 22/11/2012 03:15:33 AM 1388 Views
I do not think you can calculate the Mean without knowing the Units of Power - 22/11/2012 03:53:59 AM 1159 Views
Re: Math gurus...Is it possible to find the missing variable... - 23/11/2012 02:59:12 PM 1297 Views
Disregard this post *NM* - 23/11/2012 03:02:24 PM 875 Views

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