We've always been told that the theory is that Fades are throwbacks to human genes but there are very strange connections. First of all, we know Sindhol and its inhabitants obey a "radically different set of natural laws" (dixit RJ). That might explain why Fade don't seem to obey some natural laws. The other connection is more straighforward. RJ's description of the Aelfinn in "attack mode" is virtually word for word the same he uses to describe the serpent-like movements and features of the Myrddraal. Even more direct, in the Eelfinn scenes, Mat believes they don't hide in shadows but appear and disappear in them... Then we come to other less direct but interesting connections... Myrrdraal can sense the ability and the OP. So do the Aelfinn and Eelfinn apparently.. they're attracted to channelers, they knew the exact strength of Moiraine's angreal. We don't know what exactly the Aelfinn and Eelfinn do to read people (either to answer questions or give people what they need (they put a lot of emphasis on the word need that was italicized in a Ghenjei scene), but I'm wondering if that "sixth sense" that doesn't exist in the human world isn't how Myrddraal perceive the world without eyes.
Too many coincidental connections, IMO. It sounds very likely to me Myrrdraal are not throwbacks to only human genes, but also to dominant Aelfinn and Eelfinn genes Aginor used to make his Trollocs (like I've long suspected there are Ogier genes in Nym).
Too many coincidental connections, IMO. It sounds very likely to me Myrrdraal are not throwbacks to only human genes, but also to dominant Aelfinn and Eelfinn genes Aginor used to make his Trollocs (like I've long suspected there are Ogier genes in Nym).
I find this unlikely. It seems like trollocs are nothing more than human/animal hybrids. We often hear about how they resemble animals but have human eyes. The key to Trollocs seems to be their production using the True Power. I doubt they have Finn genes. The Myrddraal were clearly a surprise to even Aginor and are an unexpected spin-off, not of Finn genes but rather of the unpredictability and macabre nature of the True Power. Myddraal seem to be pure human/true power hybrids. The human characteristics are obvious, and the eyeless gaze is hugely similar to the saa and how they affect the eyes (Ishamael had eyes of endless flames but could see perfectly). The sensing of the OP seems to rather be a characteristic of being infused with the True Power and its interaction with saidin/saidar. Their ability to move in the shadows is a direct manifestation of their affinity to 'death magic'... Shadows, darkness, death, the fear they project with their gaze. As for their serpentine nature, it speaks more of their incredible physical strength (a fade crushed Carridin's wrist) and their ability to move with unnatural speed.
It doesn't stop there... obviously neither Lanfear nor Moiraine could stop the Finns with the OP. Rand used a sword of fire, not weaves directed at them.
I don't think this is true. Its more than likely both Lanfear and Moiraine lost consciousness when they fell through the doorway. Both were holding the Power, and they fell through holding objects of the Power. If one just looks at what happened to the doorway ter'angreal, its not too much of a stretch to assume both women also took a portion of the cataclysm themselves. By the time they had regained consciousness, they were probably in the draining mist and effectively cut off from their abilities.
I've never thought they were immune to the Power. I think Rand could have destroyed them had he known how to channel more than a sword. I doubt Moridin would have risked coming there to rescue/kill Cyndane if he could not kill them. I know he uses the TP but he would not assume it to be effective if saidin was known to be useless.
Some believe Mat's medallion is Aes Sedai made, but that sounds very unlikely to me. It seems to be a ter'angreal, but one made by the Eelfinn. I don't think anyone believes they had an ashan'darei capable of making a gateway out of their world on hand either. An ashan'darei from an adventurer, yes, but it's obvious they've modified it to have the ability to open a portal. We've also seen other "doorways" of different shapes than the one from Tear/Rhuidean in their worlds in TOM, so again those ter'angreal are made by them.
I think their ter'angreal are made by Aes Sedai. It no coincidence they're foxes and lizards. They hoard and store things in their holes. I've always believed that they store 'payments' and later use them as gifts when someone wishes for them. Moiraine's angreal was probably taken from some channeler as payment for the bargain.
The medallion of the Eelfinn could harm a gholam... It then occured to me to go re read the gholam's POV and how he described taking the life of a channeller:
"The moment of death, when it felt the ability to channel vanish along with life, produced ecstasy. Rapture."
"The moment of death, when it felt the ability to channel vanish along with life, produced ecstasy. Rapture."
I think this was merely preprogrammed by Aginor. Much like a human orgasm, Aginor used it as a driving force to make the gholam better as his job.
Interesting.. similar to what Moiraine say the Finns love of the ability to channel.
The Finns seem to savor ecstasy in its various forms. They savor the soul of humans and their experiences, ta'veren and channelers. Different drugs for different situations.
As for the One Power, the gholam itself compares its itch to that felt by Myrrdraal.
True Power
It does make sense, I guess.. the Finns are really nasty creatures, and they obey physical laws radically different from those of the real world. Interesting genes pool for Aginor to toy with. No reason to believe he restrained himself to human-world genes and didn't get some from Sindhol, or Portal Worlds.
I honestly think if he took genes from Sindhol, they'd most likely be found in a draghkar.
I still think that makes for a whole lot of coincidental similarities, especially the different natural laws applying to those beings, the way Aelfinn move in "attack mode" (it matches almost word for word the reptilian qualities of Myrddraal), the way the Eelfinn use shadows, their attraction to the OP.
Eelfinn/Aelfinn genes wouldn't mean Myrddraal were planned. The mix of otherworldy genes would explain very nicely the oddity that they when they manage to dominate they produce systematically the exact same results, totally different in most respects from Trollocs, baffling Aginor. Knowing it's their Eelfinn genes that allows them to travel using shadows wouldn't make Aginor make any progress to understand how it works and try to reproduce that on purpose and fail... eventually asking Semirhage to torture Fades to try to get clues from them. We know now what it's all about and why Aginor was so interested in this quality: Shadowspawn can't Travel, if he managed to understand, isolate and reproduce the mechanisms, his new creations would by-pass that problem and shadow-travel...
Even if they're "immune" to OP weaves, Moridin channels the True Power, and RJ gave us all the hints the DO is actually more dangerous under Sindhol's radically different natural laws than in the human world. The way Moiraine speaks of the events (with Moridin being paraded around to Moiraine's location etc. and the fact we see that the Doorway in Tear has now been destroyed, it seems obvious that Moridin went in there protected by the treaties.
I don't understand your objection about how Moiraine and Lanfear went through the Doorway. It's totally irrelevant. We know the OP can be drawn from there, from Rand (who never tried to touch the Finns with weaves, however). Moiraine when she got there first was led to the Chamber of Bonds and had her Bargain, she then got screwed because it "wasn't the Eelfinn's problem" if the doorway by which the treaty forced them let her out was destroyed, and she got captured, put to sleep and they woke her up periodically to be drained, frightening her with lies they had killed Lanfear by draining her too fast (we now know from Moghedien it's a lie and it's Moridin who killed her or demanded the Eelfinn killed her, it means the Elfinn have a very mean streak). She wasn't all the time inconscious and obviously she didn't manage to get out with the OP. It's even more obvious with Lanfear, as Moraine could have decided not to fight them... but Lanfear even if she was inconscious some times, they still managed to hold her. Unless you believe Lanfear didn't try to fight being held or drained whenever she was conscious if she could.... They have the means to make ter'angreal stopping direct weaves, and to make ter'angreal portals (rather obviously channelers can't make gateways from there work, otherwise it's the first thing Lanfear would have done).
It would make sense Aginor would try to use genes of Sindhol creatures if he managed to capture some. He was aiming to produce the ultimate predator, and the Finns are obviously extremely dangerous creatures, with interesting powers. The pinnacle of his experiments with Sindhol genes may have been the gholam: immune to the OP, able to use portals/gateways.
Oh well, this is a question Brandon is more or less likely to agree to answer if it's put to him (unless it's the kind of information from RJ's notes about Shadowspawn Harriet wishes to keep for the Encyclopedia).
I figure I have one last chance to get out my underlying assumption on the series
08/11/2012 12:32:46 AM
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The other way around, I believe.
08/11/2012 01:43:00 AM
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Interesting, a few questions.....
08/11/2012 05:25:48 AM
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Everything about the Blight the sealing and the nature of the Dark One indicates TAR
08/11/2012 06:44:14 PM
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I'm not so sure about a few things
08/11/2012 05:28:18 PM
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Re: I'm not so sure about a few things
08/11/2012 09:38:21 PM
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I think you may be trying to hard to satisfy all of the various Dreams, Visions etc...
10/11/2012 12:41:03 AM
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Re: I think you may be trying to hard to satisfy all of the various Dreams, Visions etc...
10/11/2012 06:54:44 PM
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I don't think the Finn theory is likely
11/11/2012 08:14:59 AM
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Re: I don't think the Finn theory is likely
11/11/2012 06:18:01 PM
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Re: I don't think the Finn theory is likely
12/11/2012 05:48:20 PM
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Moiraine and Lanfear
12/11/2012 06:06:11 PM
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Re: Moiraine and Lanfear
12/11/2012 06:45:22 PM
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Re: Moiraine and Lanfear
12/11/2012 11:45:40 PM
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Re: Moiraine and Lanfear
16/11/2012 12:11:28 AM
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I don't think so
16/11/2012 01:22:55 AM
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dang it, somehow a bunch of my message vanished
16/11/2012 03:36:00 AM
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Re: dang it, somehow a bunch of my message vanished
16/11/2012 05:25:29 PM
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Re: I don't think the Finn theory is likely
12/11/2012 08:26:20 PM
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Re: I think you may be trying to hard to satisfy all of the various Dreams, Visions etc...
11/11/2012 05:58:47 PM
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Re: I think you may be trying to hard to satisfy all of the various Dreams, Visions etc...
11/11/2012 08:37:36 PM
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I always thought fades were just channelers and they used the TP instead of the OP
15/11/2012 06:29:55 PM
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Re: I always thought fades were just channelers and they used the TP instead of the OP
16/11/2012 12:20:17 AM
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Think of it as them being learners not sparkers. Or maybe wilders.
18/11/2012 07:29:17 PM
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Re: Think of it as them being learners not sparkers. Or maybe wilders.
18/11/2012 10:40:49 PM
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No DO ok is a good explanation of that
19/11/2012 09:07:27 PM
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Re: No DO ok is a good explanation of that
20/11/2012 01:32:49 PM
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The Blight is an example of compressed reality
20/11/2012 08:46:10 PM
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Re: The Blight is an example of compressed reality
20/11/2012 09:56:13 PM
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Re: The Blight is an example of compressed reality
23/11/2012 08:57:10 PM
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Re: The Blight is an example of compressed reality
23/11/2012 11:38:55 PM
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I think as a channeler she had a legitimate sense of the folding.
26/11/2012 10:31:26 PM
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