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Re: I applaud your effort, but to be honest I just can't see it DomA Send a noteboard - 07/11/2012 08:36:34 PM
Demandred with the SF has several weaknesses.

1. They aren't a relevant military force
2. They have been split up since KoD to delivery supplies where Demandred seems to be in the middle of a consolidation
3. They are not strategically well placed at the moment
4. They are a Naval force with no one to fight

Even if Demandred isn't Roedran, I have a hard time seeing him being among the Sea Folk. I think what you have put forward is for the most part well reasoned and solid, but RJ always had a purpose for where he placed characters and Demandred among the Sea Folk seems to lack that ... Nearly all of the Forsaken (Semirhage, Mesaana, Rahvin, Be'lal, Sammael, Graendal, Aran'gar, Osan'gar) were attached to major Political/Ruling bodies, those that were not (Moghedien, Asmodean, Lanfear, Ishamael)directly involved themselves with Rand and company (or in the case of Moghedien Nynaeve).

Demandred is clearly not working an angle with any of the main cast of characters or he would have been spotted by now (either by the readers or Graendal who keeps tabs on the TR group). That leaves us with limited options to pin him down.

1. Roedran
2. Borderlanders
3. Seanchan
4. Sea Folk
5. Aiel

There don't seem to be any good candidates among the Aiel, Borderlanders or the Seanchan since RJ and BSand ruled out anyone who has appeared "on camera" prior to AMoL ... which IMO also rules out Amel who, did have a cameo, even if a brief one.

Roedran is well placed strategically and with a consolidated Murrandy has a significant power base to open hostilities ... Andor is in a weakened state thanks to the Trolloc's invasion, which Demandred can make worse by provoking a conflict with the Seanchan. Even if you throw out a human army, He is in a prime location as Roedran to direct armies of Trollocs coming out of the Ways all throughout the continent.

Personally I think Demandred having an alter-ego is kind of lame, he doesn't need it at this stage in the books and it would be much more interesting to me if he simply appeared with dozens of Trolloc Hoards coming from various Waygates to smash the southlands.


I would not be surprised he still has the real Roedran under compulsion and well hidden (well away from Lugard, accessible only by Gateway), and he replaces him with a MoM only for important tasks, happy to let the real Roedran have his parties and whatnot. If Demandred is Roedran, he played this right. He's been patient, didn't have some great noble appear to openly gain influence as Sammael, Rahvin and Be'lal all did. He took his time to study Roedran to be able to replace him, and worked to make his "evolution" of personality happen smoothly, as if Roedran was maturing or naturally changing, coming into his own. He's kept Murandy totally out of anything until the AS's presence offered him the opportunity to hire the Band and have a credible, not too suspicious way to unite his nobles around him and "secure his rule". It was convenient, but he had an alternative which was to wait for the Seanchan to mass armies at his borders... He even made sure to let the Band go.

RJ was clever, but the clues are there Roedran has changed, and not all that hidden. It showed up in both the Rebel and Succession storyline, in small touches. The Rebel AS perhaps sent him an embassy as they did with other rulers around, but RJ made sure never to attract our attention on it (they are almost certainly not BA, if they exist. Demandred simply use them to report there's nothing to report, but it looks like there's no Rebel or WT embassy in Lugard, and no advisor). "Roedred" is an old theory, which only gained strength with KOD and Talmanes but that had been around since he hired the Band or so. It just took forever for credible theories as to why Demandred would have any interest in replacing King Roedran and gain himself an army of Murandians, of all things, to emerge. Mine's not the only one (probably not the first either), but most of those I find credible center on Demandred using the Murandians as proxies, not at all as "his army".

Demandred can't have any army turn to the Shadow. If he doesn't have an army of DF like Taim has, then the army of the Light he controls has to be fooled in fighting armies of the Light, and the most harmful such conflict Demandred could engineer is one with the Seanchan, which happen to fit with the geography, his recent dealing with Elayne and it used to be complementary plans of Mesaana and Semirhage. (the other believable option is some plans for Andor, but I found those weaker).

It's not that the theory of the OP is bad, as far as tracking the identity goes, but it hits the same wall the Roedran theories did a few years ago: we can't see a plan in there, except impossible stuff like ordering the SF to attack Tear, Illian and Bandar Eban. It doesn't mean it doesn't exist (though I agree with you Amel himself is ruled out by his cameo), but until someone comes up with a solid and credible way in which Demandred could use the Sea Folk (as it needs to be as proxies, there's no way to make them fight the Light except the Seanchan and they're no match for them on their own, nor located for it) Demandred with the SF is not credible.












This message last edited by DomA on 07/11/2012 at 08:39:46 PM
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[Mik's Warp] - Demandred is.....*click to find out* - 05/11/2012 01:06:42 PM 2738 Views
There are only 2 months left before AMOL comes out (or less)... - 05/11/2012 02:10:07 PM 1296 Views
Nah.. forget that - 05/11/2012 08:29:53 PM 1139 Views
Re: Nah.. forget that - 05/11/2012 10:07:46 PM 998 Views
Re: There are only 2 months left before AMOL comes out (or less)... - 06/11/2012 12:40:54 PM 1185 Views
I'm not saying it's not a well-reasoned theory; it is. - 06/11/2012 06:02:36 PM 1188 Views
I say Roederan is a better choice simply because of where he is located - 06/11/2012 11:01:28 PM 1093 Views
Re: I say Roederan is a better choice simply because of where he is located - 07/11/2012 09:42:00 AM 1350 Views
I applaud your effort, but to be honest I just can't see it - 07/11/2012 04:48:17 PM 968 Views
Re: I applaud your effort, but to be honest I just can't see it - 07/11/2012 08:36:34 PM 1227 Views
There has been a lot of waste in WOT..... - 06/11/2012 06:26:56 PM 913 Views
LIKE! *NM* - 09/12/2012 02:37:49 PM 1032 Views
Whoops *NM* - 06/11/2012 07:27:06 PM 554 Views
Plausible, albeit antilclimactic *NM* - 05/11/2012 06:32:38 PM 608 Views
Unless Mat is Demandred, at this point it will be anticlimactic. *NM* - 06/11/2012 04:02:38 AM 567 Views
That would be EPIC *NM* - 06/11/2012 07:53:30 PM 575 Views
That would be EPIC *NM* - 06/11/2012 07:53:31 PM 567 Views
You've tried too hard... - 05/11/2012 07:53:41 PM 2805 Views
Will be so disappointed if the Shadow's greatest (non-crazy) leader is defeated by Mr Happy Go Lucky - 05/11/2012 08:57:59 PM 1138 Views
I doubt Mat will kill him personally but - 05/11/2012 09:24:48 PM 892 Views
I don't know - 06/11/2012 02:01:41 AM 898 Views
My prediction of how it plays out... - 06/11/2012 07:12:15 AM 998 Views
I don't think that's likely - 06/11/2012 06:04:55 PM 960 Views
LOL ... it will be a saying in the next Age - 06/11/2012 10:36:04 PM 899 Views
Re: I don't think that's likely - 06/11/2012 11:21:21 PM 897 Views
Re: I don't think that's likely - 07/11/2012 08:14:28 PM 1019 Views
Re: I don't think that's likely - 07/11/2012 09:05:07 PM 1123 Views
Re: I don't think that's likely - 08/11/2012 05:52:16 PM 942 Views
It sounds like we're at the same stage of vision of the AOL - 08/11/2012 07:48:17 PM 896 Views
Statistics refute some of that... - 09/11/2012 07:35:59 AM 905 Views
We're not talking about the same things... - 09/11/2012 11:31:12 PM 891 Views
It doesn't mean no one in this Age can be at Talented or Intelligent. - 09/11/2012 11:43:26 PM 1087 Views
Re: It doesn't mean no one in this Age can be at Talented or Intelligent. - 10/11/2012 07:34:34 AM 1004 Views
You seriously believe that? - 10/11/2012 04:17:09 PM 932 Views
Mat has grown quiet a bit since those days - 06/11/2012 01:55:48 AM 1053 Views
You're putting the Evil on a pedestal. - 06/11/2012 03:12:38 AM 820 Views
No, just desperately trying to raise the stakes a bit... - 06/11/2012 07:00:59 AM 966 Views
That's essentially what I was saying - 06/11/2012 03:35:45 PM 1085 Views
hmmm - 06/11/2012 10:27:00 AM 1222 Views
... is defeated by Mr Happy Go Lucky - 06/11/2012 08:45:02 PM 1049 Views
Mat is essentially the man (men) who wrote the books Demandred studied - 06/11/2012 10:42:40 PM 879 Views
Exactly... - 06/11/2012 11:45:36 PM 1046 Views
... is defeated by Mr Happy Go Lucky - 06/11/2012 08:45:29 PM 1092 Views
I didn't try hard at all; Demandred found me... - 06/11/2012 03:31:41 PM 1057 Views
My biggest contention with Demandred being with the Sea Folk - 06/11/2012 10:54:50 PM 1028 Views
Re: My biggest contention with Demandred being with the Sea Folk - 07/11/2012 12:07:02 AM 1078 Views
Well, it instantly gives the Shadow access to attacking every coastal city... - 07/11/2012 10:32:23 AM 950 Views
Exactly! - 07/11/2012 10:54:14 AM 1499 Views
If he married Nynaeve and Moiraine he'd have his wives at Rand's side in the Pit too.... - 07/11/2012 03:28:38 PM 920 Views
I find that approach unnecessarily convoluted. Just hit them with 1 billion Trollocs and crush them. - 08/11/2012 07:00:36 AM 908 Views
Not likely he has that many... - 08/11/2012 03:00:32 PM 843 Views
May I ask some practical questions? - 08/11/2012 05:28:41 PM 844 Views
Re: May I ask some practical questions? - 08/11/2012 10:35:38 PM 981 Views
Re: May I ask some practical questions? - 10/11/2012 12:09:15 AM 913 Views
Re: May I ask some practical questions? - 10/11/2012 03:11:59 AM 921 Views
LOL ... Seems more than a little far fetched *NM* - 10/11/2012 06:17:34 AM 513 Views
Well you asked for an explanation - 13/11/2012 10:23:41 PM 834 Views
fair enough *NM* - 14/11/2012 01:31:52 AM 485 Views
Re: May I ask some practical questions? - 10/11/2012 07:15:58 PM 960 Views
Exactly! - 11/11/2012 07:38:46 AM 962 Views
Good practical questions... - 09/11/2012 07:24:14 AM 957 Views
He doesn't need the SF for that - 09/11/2012 03:00:34 PM 732 Views
Well, they hadn't planned on them being Traveling grounds as they didn't know about - 09/11/2012 02:57:16 PM 792 Views
Re: Well, they hadn't planned on them being Traveling grounds as they didn't know about - 09/11/2012 09:03:14 PM 911 Views
I know. I'm saying they were not doing this with Traveling in mind. - 09/11/2012 11:57:34 PM 886 Views
Re: I know. I'm saying they were not doing this with Traveling in mind. - 10/11/2012 10:08:04 PM 2421 Views
I see what you are getting at ... And I see how Zaida used it to her advantage - 11/11/2012 07:45:19 AM 945 Views
Re: I see what you are getting at ... And I see how Zaida used it to her advantage - 12/11/2012 02:57:08 PM 962 Views
Nesta sent 2 ambassadors to the Coramoor. Both looking for the same thing - 12/11/2012 04:11:50 PM 994 Views
Re: Nesta sent 2 ambassadors to the Coramoor. Both looking for the same thing - 12/11/2012 06:01:33 PM 1083 Views
Well there is also the fact that Harine pretty much tells us she MUST make a Bargain - 12/11/2012 06:51:24 PM 1114 Views
Re: Well there is also the fact that Harine pretty much tells us she MUST make a Bargain - 12/11/2012 09:30:57 PM 912 Views
Not to belabor the point - 12/11/2012 10:56:39 PM 861 Views
Re: Not to belabor the point - 13/11/2012 12:46:21 AM 822 Views
I think you are way off base on the economics - 13/11/2012 01:24:35 AM 789 Views
Re: I think you are way off base on the economics - 13/11/2012 03:48:40 PM 909 Views
no reason to *NM* - 14/11/2012 01:35:55 AM 503 Views
I don't see the problem... - 07/11/2012 10:52:49 AM 1638 Views
This is preposterous - 07/11/2012 04:15:11 PM 1337 Views
Who? - 06/11/2012 07:29:46 PM 863 Views
Paah, he's clearly on the Isle of Madmen to the south. - 10/11/2012 03:28:26 AM 1285 Views

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