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Not quite Sidious Send a noteboard - 03/11/2012 08:02:05 AM
Daigian at 16 makes her roughly 1/3 of Moiraine at 50 and allows for the right number of SD on BOTH sides of the Mean (3 up and 3 down). Your weakening of the AS to fit your notions of Forsaken godhood simply makes them outliers on the BC and ignores the fact that there should be as many Channelers on each side of the curve ... In your system we have the bottom part fully flushed out, but almost no one but massive outliers, like the Forsaken on the top half. That is not a Bell Curve. I shall dub it the Shannow Curvelike scale. :P

I don't think you appreciate many of the quotes in the series. The Forsaken 'godhood' does not exist, but its abundantly clear that the Forsaken are much more powerful than average channelers. It's all over the books from people who have met them. The Forsaken themselves find most channelers negligible compared to them, and Graendal only really notices a woman of immense strength like Nynaeve or Cyndane. On the other hand, Liandrin thinks it would take three of them linked to match Moghedien, arguably the weakest of the Forsaken. You can spin it as much as you like with concepts like knowledge, training etc... but you have yet to answer problems like the fact that a strong Asha'aman and two Aes Sedai in a ring have the same power as Demandred.

I think you have to read the series as a whole to appreciate the concept of high levels of strength. If I have a wagon with ten bricks and most people have five, I'm not going to find everyone negligible, or think that I'm so gifted. You've got to appreciate the proportionality of the series. If Rand is scared of 'no three women' I don't really see how you can claim anything other than what I've presented to you before.

Your problem continues to be that you think raw power is what makes the Forsaken seem so strong. It's not. RJ made this abundantly clear throughout the series and in many interviews. Training/skill is what is most important in a match up.

But they don't know this and they don't include it in their quotes. Why do you think Rahvin asks Lanfear if Rand can match her? Do you think there is any way that Rand could have AOL training? No. She says that Lews Therin was as strong as any. Lanfear even warns Rahvin to beware of thirteen women, one of whom he utterly dismisses based on her strength. Why do you think Rand calls Moiraine a 'little Sister'? It's an AOL term and it says a lot about her power relative to his.

Moiraine at 50% of Lanfears strength would be CRUSHED in a duel. She'd not only be giving up Power, but to an even wider margin, skill. Lanfear at less than 1/2 of Alivia still held her own, why? SKILL. Egwene stood no chance at the docks not only because Lanfear was stronger, but because Lanfear was vastly more skilled. It wouldn't have mattered if Egwene was 10x Lanfear at that moment, Lanfear knew how to use her power to her own best advantage.

That is true, but it doesn't mean its reflected in the quotes. Nynaeve was equal to Moghedien in strength and she wasn't bested by knowledge. Even in WH Nynaeve is described as an almost incompetent channeler by Cadsuane and yet many books earlier she was a direct match for Moghedien on more than one occasion. Moghedien even says she'd love for Rahvin to meet Nynaeve unblocked.

Only the AS in the entire series give any real note to strength other than a casual comment or a moment of surprise, which is why RJ created the 21 level list in the first place. Pretty much everyone stronger than Moiraine or weaker than Daigian don't much matter on that list IMO.

That is utterly incorrect. The Forsaken don't mention strength because no one is ever close to them. Graendal changes her whole tactic when she discovers that Cyndane is equal to her in strength. Demandred has no caution for Flinn until her realizes the ring can match his power. Graendal mentions Someryn. I agree that the Forsaken don't refer to strength often, but its because they are so rare, and more evidence of this 'godhood'.

Wheel of Time board admin
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Addressing problems with the Bell Curve - 31/10/2012 11:30:42 AM 1455 Views
Who said RJ created a 100 point scale? I always assumed we did to make this easier to follow - 31/10/2012 02:22:51 PM 826 Views
One more point here - 31/10/2012 03:02:34 PM 707 Views
I've think I've finally done it. I've solved the entire Curve. Daigian is the key... - 01/11/2012 09:20:57 AM 929 Views
Did some playing with your numbers to make this work better - 01/11/2012 02:13:00 PM 888 Views
The Mean and SD are set by Daigian's position. Your options are therefore not possible... - 02/11/2012 07:49:24 AM 832 Views
Yet you have many more SD between the Mean and Lanfear than you do Morgase and the Mean - 02/11/2012 02:39:51 PM 719 Views
I absolutely agree. The lower side of the curve MUST be intersected by zero after 1 SD... - 02/11/2012 03:03:52 PM 604 Views
I am not convinced Moiraine is the Mean. Merely 50% of Lanfear - 02/11/2012 04:23:57 PM 756 Views
But on a Bell Curve the Mean IS 50% of Lanfear. You've just disproven your own contention. - 02/11/2012 04:40:31 PM 683 Views
OMG no it is NOT! - 02/11/2012 05:16:36 PM 622 Views
I agree with that. But please honestly look at the math I presented. It disproves the Bell Curve. - 02/11/2012 05:24:41 PM 895 Views
It doesn't matter that you think the BC is disproved. - 02/11/2012 06:07:19 PM 728 Views
Confusing post... - 02/11/2012 06:30:40 PM 773 Views
Dreadlord is essentially describing a lognormal distribution - 02/11/2012 07:21:39 PM 686 Views
If you choose to ignore the author go right ahead. I just think you are wrong - 02/11/2012 09:05:14 PM 813 Views
A non-linear 21 point scale is fine... - 02/11/2012 11:02:48 PM 839 Views
I've been operating off of the scale I described for years - 02/11/2012 11:25:27 PM 722 Views
Re: It doesn't matter that you think the BC is disproved. - 02/11/2012 07:11:57 PM 708 Views
Not true - 02/11/2012 08:52:42 PM 758 Views
Re: Not true - 03/11/2012 09:19:11 AM 730 Views
Read my other posts - 03/11/2012 04:19:15 PM 588 Views
Not quite - 03/11/2012 08:02:05 AM 719 Views
I think it's about skill not strength - 03/11/2012 04:38:07 PM 601 Views
I think the number is about 10 - 03/11/2012 08:42:08 AM 778 Views
Nope - 03/11/2012 04:14:45 PM 711 Views
Re: Nope - 03/11/2012 04:39:07 PM 750 Views
Verin and Graendal each have angreal of unkown strength - 03/11/2012 06:15:49 PM 670 Views
Re: Verin and Graendal each have angreal of unkown strength - 03/11/2012 10:15:10 PM 748 Views
*shrugs* - 03/11/2012 10:25:18 PM 639 Views
Re: *shrugs* - 04/11/2012 07:12:21 AM 842 Views
You have 4 markers and you should use them all - 10/11/2012 03:08:37 PM 571 Views
Indeed - 10/11/2012 03:59:51 PM 714 Views
Re: Addressing problems with the Bell Curve - 01/11/2012 06:23:07 PM 761 Views
Re: Addressing problems with the Bell Curve - 01/11/2012 09:48:04 PM 722 Views
Re: Addressing problems with the Bell Curve - 02/11/2012 09:02:58 PM 751 Views
Re: Addressing problems with the Bell Curve - 02/11/2012 09:56:50 PM 831 Views
I'll have to disagree with much of this - 03/11/2012 07:46:31 AM 776 Views
Why do you always think Strength is the point - 03/11/2012 04:35:26 PM 546 Views
I don't - I merely appreciate it as a factor - 03/11/2012 04:48:24 PM 650 Views
0 Evidence? Cyndane v. Alivia is plenty of evidence EDIT with exact quote - 03/11/2012 06:17:39 PM 676 Views
One other thing you have forgotten about - 03/11/2012 10:13:09 PM 658 Views
Your agenda blinds you to logic yet again...As I'll simply demonstrate with your example here... - 03/11/2012 11:08:13 PM 716 Views
Nope, the only experience she has in reality is against Rand - 03/11/2012 11:09:54 PM 619 Views
Nonsense. - 03/11/2012 11:11:05 PM 653 Views
Believe as you will - 03/11/2012 11:26:50 PM 811 Views
That's a classic. - 04/11/2012 12:06:13 AM 672 Views
You misquote on a regular basis and have no grasp of the timeline in the series - 04/11/2012 01:36:37 AM 537 Views
Hmm... - 04/11/2012 07:08:04 AM 863 Views
stop getting all indignant ... I'm really not trying to be nasty to you - 04/11/2012 04:20:06 PM 692 Views

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