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Confusing post... Shannow Send a noteboard - 02/11/2012 06:30:40 PM
the Author laid it out as a fact of HIS universe. We have to live with it.

Accept the fact that the Forsaken are not that much stronger than everyone else ... as I've stated a million times, they don't HAVE to be ... raw power is nearly a meaningless conversation when the only facts we have are:

1. Lanfear is as strong as a woman can be
2. Morgase is as weak as a woman can be

This means there MUST be an equal number of SD between Morgase and the Mean as there are between Lanfear and the Mean, but it says NOTHING of actual amounts of the Power each level represents. The misstep here is that we are talking about % of total as the same thing as amount of power. Lanfear is 100% of the maximum strength, but can likely handle many hundreds of times the amount of Power Morgase can handle. Moiraine IMO can handle roughly half the volume of Lanfear, but that may not mean she is the Mean on a Bell Curve. She may well be as much higher from the evidence of those Stronger it's possible that she is several SDs above Mean.

3. Daigian MUST be stronger than about 40% of women and 30% of Men
4. Daigian can handle roughly 1/3 as much saidar as Moiraine

This says nothing about their relative places on the BC since we cannot reliably place either of them. IMO they are probably around the same distance from the Mean but that is purely speculation.

5. Egwene is roughly equal to Amys and Melaine combined.

This makes her somewhere along the lines of 1.75x Moiraine in terms of volume of saidar she can wield, but again, there is no way to know where she falls on the BC aside from the evidence in the books which makes her an outlier of more than 2 SD from the Mean. This also means that she is probably as rare as a woman like Alise or Sorilea who are also outliers on the weaker side of the Curve.

No math formula is going to magically make all of the tidbits we have work. But I will stick to the author's quote on the existence of a BC as he is in effect "god" in terms of WoT.


That post was all over the place, covering so many different arguments - from Forsaken strength, to varying jumps between levels to the Mean falling halfway between Morgase and Lanfear after all.

I don't think you know what you believe anymore.

It is very simple. If the Bell Curve does apply, it is not a linear, absolute scale. Mathematically that is impossible, given Daigian's comparative strength to Moiraine and Egwene, and her comparative closeness to the Mean (only 0.32SD below it).

If the Bell Curve does apply, it must be very similar to what Dreadlord has depicted in his post below, with each level relating to a non linear increase in strength.

If that is the case, then your and Fionwe's Bell Curve based arguments to try and prove channeler strength can be chucked in the bin.

Then we are back to merely going on the text from the books, which is fine by me.
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Addressing problems with the Bell Curve - 31/10/2012 11:30:42 AM 1455 Views
Who said RJ created a 100 point scale? I always assumed we did to make this easier to follow - 31/10/2012 02:22:51 PM 826 Views
One more point here - 31/10/2012 03:02:34 PM 707 Views
I've think I've finally done it. I've solved the entire Curve. Daigian is the key... - 01/11/2012 09:20:57 AM 929 Views
Did some playing with your numbers to make this work better - 01/11/2012 02:13:00 PM 888 Views
The Mean and SD are set by Daigian's position. Your options are therefore not possible... - 02/11/2012 07:49:24 AM 832 Views
Yet you have many more SD between the Mean and Lanfear than you do Morgase and the Mean - 02/11/2012 02:39:51 PM 719 Views
I absolutely agree. The lower side of the curve MUST be intersected by zero after 1 SD... - 02/11/2012 03:03:52 PM 604 Views
I am not convinced Moiraine is the Mean. Merely 50% of Lanfear - 02/11/2012 04:23:57 PM 756 Views
But on a Bell Curve the Mean IS 50% of Lanfear. You've just disproven your own contention. - 02/11/2012 04:40:31 PM 683 Views
OMG no it is NOT! - 02/11/2012 05:16:36 PM 622 Views
I agree with that. But please honestly look at the math I presented. It disproves the Bell Curve. - 02/11/2012 05:24:41 PM 895 Views
It doesn't matter that you think the BC is disproved. - 02/11/2012 06:07:19 PM 728 Views
Confusing post... - 02/11/2012 06:30:40 PM 772 Views
Dreadlord is essentially describing a lognormal distribution - 02/11/2012 07:21:39 PM 686 Views
If you choose to ignore the author go right ahead. I just think you are wrong - 02/11/2012 09:05:14 PM 813 Views
A non-linear 21 point scale is fine... - 02/11/2012 11:02:48 PM 839 Views
I've been operating off of the scale I described for years - 02/11/2012 11:25:27 PM 722 Views
Re: It doesn't matter that you think the BC is disproved. - 02/11/2012 07:11:57 PM 708 Views
Not true - 02/11/2012 08:52:42 PM 758 Views
Re: Not true - 03/11/2012 09:19:11 AM 730 Views
Read my other posts - 03/11/2012 04:19:15 PM 588 Views
Not quite - 03/11/2012 08:02:05 AM 718 Views
I think it's about skill not strength - 03/11/2012 04:38:07 PM 601 Views
I think the number is about 10 - 03/11/2012 08:42:08 AM 778 Views
Nope - 03/11/2012 04:14:45 PM 711 Views
Re: Nope - 03/11/2012 04:39:07 PM 750 Views
Verin and Graendal each have angreal of unkown strength - 03/11/2012 06:15:49 PM 670 Views
Re: Verin and Graendal each have angreal of unkown strength - 03/11/2012 10:15:10 PM 748 Views
*shrugs* - 03/11/2012 10:25:18 PM 639 Views
Re: *shrugs* - 04/11/2012 07:12:21 AM 841 Views
You have 4 markers and you should use them all - 10/11/2012 03:08:37 PM 571 Views
Indeed - 10/11/2012 03:59:51 PM 714 Views
Re: Addressing problems with the Bell Curve - 01/11/2012 06:23:07 PM 761 Views
Re: Addressing problems with the Bell Curve - 01/11/2012 09:48:04 PM 722 Views
Re: Addressing problems with the Bell Curve - 02/11/2012 09:02:58 PM 751 Views
Re: Addressing problems with the Bell Curve - 02/11/2012 09:56:50 PM 831 Views
I'll have to disagree with much of this - 03/11/2012 07:46:31 AM 776 Views
Why do you always think Strength is the point - 03/11/2012 04:35:26 PM 545 Views
I don't - I merely appreciate it as a factor - 03/11/2012 04:48:24 PM 649 Views
0 Evidence? Cyndane v. Alivia is plenty of evidence EDIT with exact quote - 03/11/2012 06:17:39 PM 676 Views
One other thing you have forgotten about - 03/11/2012 10:13:09 PM 658 Views
Your agenda blinds you to logic yet again...As I'll simply demonstrate with your example here... - 03/11/2012 11:08:13 PM 716 Views
Nope, the only experience she has in reality is against Rand - 03/11/2012 11:09:54 PM 619 Views
Nonsense. - 03/11/2012 11:11:05 PM 653 Views
Believe as you will - 03/11/2012 11:26:50 PM 811 Views
That's a classic. - 04/11/2012 12:06:13 AM 671 Views
You misquote on a regular basis and have no grasp of the timeline in the series - 04/11/2012 01:36:37 AM 537 Views
Hmm... - 04/11/2012 07:08:04 AM 862 Views
stop getting all indignant ... I'm really not trying to be nasty to you - 04/11/2012 04:20:06 PM 692 Views

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