Sharina did not have the Spark, nor did Nicola
darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 30/10/2012 05:16:40 PM
As is said, every strong channeller in the book we know the origins of had the spark, in a similar way that there are too many weak channellers around now. I just don't see Maria's remarks being true (to at least what RJ put in the books). I appreciate this makes all of what I'm going to say next irrelevant if you believe what Maria says makes sense in context with the books but for me it doesn't.
I dislike using one bell curve to visualise all channelers, I much prefer a male and a female curve on the same graph which have different peaks either side of the "average". If it's anything like physical sexual dimorphism in humans then those peaks could be closer to 33 for females and 66 for males anyway (working off purely upper body strength studies, it could be a bit closer).
Again if you separated out the female channelers into those with the spark and without (This goes back to me not believing Maria). If you need to be a wilder to have a decent chance of being above AOL average and wilders have been continually ignored for 3000 years it's very possible that you're simply looking at the wrong side of the bell curve for people born without the spark.
If you accept Maria's statement then I fully understand that what I've said isn't applicable but I personally just can't accept what she says when the books to me say otherwise.
I dislike using one bell curve to visualise all channelers, I much prefer a male and a female curve on the same graph which have different peaks either side of the "average". If it's anything like physical sexual dimorphism in humans then those peaks could be closer to 33 for females and 66 for males anyway (working off purely upper body strength studies, it could be a bit closer).
Again if you separated out the female channelers into those with the spark and without (This goes back to me not believing Maria). If you need to be a wilder to have a decent chance of being above AOL average and wilders have been continually ignored for 3000 years it's very possible that you're simply looking at the wrong side of the bell curve for people born without the spark.
If you accept Maria's statement then I fully understand that what I've said isn't applicable but I personally just can't accept what she says when the books to me say otherwise.
And Tarna and Theodrin were both Wilders (meaning they had the Spark) and neither of them are in the very top tiers of AS strength, which shows the Spark is not linked to strength. In fact there are many AS who had the Spark and are weak, we just don't see a ton of them onscreen. But they must exist since there is a special classification for them within AS hierarchy and we hear from Verin how many women come to the Tower with "tricks".
IMO the "Spark" is simply a literary device RJ used to include things like Nynaeve's block, ensuring there was a 100% solid reason Egwene had to accompany the group and why Rand couldn't help but Channel. It also explains the purpose of the Red Ajah, who would have no job if there were no male sparkers.
In fact the Spark seems to be either a purely genetic trait that appears at random or something the Wheel spins out as necessary. Which may explain why there are Ages with no Channeling at all.
INTERVIEW: Nov 21st, 2009
Driving Mr. Sanderson - Matt Hatch
MATT HATCH
...there is a quote I brought that we asked at DragonCon, Jordan said: “I don't think I have said if you are born with the spark you would have the have the spark again. I have said if you were born with the ability to channel, to learn or with the spark, you will, when your soul is born again, you will have the ability again, whether with the spark or without...” So, in essence he said it’s inherent you have the ability. Whether or not you spark or you can learn it that depends on the life.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
The Bell Curve revisited
29/10/2012 09:44:09 AM
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Re: The Bell Curve revisited
29/10/2012 10:21:27 AM
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That's incorrect...
29/10/2012 10:26:49 AM
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Re: That's incorrect...
29/10/2012 10:36:32 AM
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Re: That's incorrect...
29/10/2012 10:40:27 AM
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Re: That's incorrect...
29/10/2012 10:42:57 AM
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Hehe...There are a few disputing it vocally. Whether they're in their right mind, well...
29/10/2012 10:45:07 AM
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Re: Hehe...There are a few disputing it vocally. Whether they're in their right mind, well...
29/10/2012 10:49:49 AM
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Re: Hehe...There are a few disputing it vocally. Whether they're in their right mind, well...
29/10/2012 10:56:37 AM
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It's only as skewed as it seems when you make the assumption that the Forsaken
31/10/2012 04:34:11 AM
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RJ the physicist didn't know math, so that Shannow could be right...
29/10/2012 02:11:19 PM
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Re: RJ the physicist didn't know math, so that Shannow could be right...
29/10/2012 02:37:33 PM
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there are dozens of reasons for this
29/10/2012 08:18:18 PM
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Re: there are dozens of reasons for this
29/10/2012 09:07:35 PM
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Again I don't argue that genetics play no role
30/10/2012 01:57:24 AM
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Once again just so,we are clear on my stance with Genetics and Strength
30/10/2012 03:27:11 PM
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That the 1000 Novices aren't a random sample of the population?
29/10/2012 08:23:47 PM
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And why would it be biased towards those with lower strength?
29/10/2012 09:11:25 PM
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Absolutely no reason...
30/10/2012 01:35:35 AM
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Re: Absolutely no reason...
30/10/2012 06:43:54 AM
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Only if it was a random sampling. Which this is not.
30/10/2012 01:58:34 PM
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That's exactly the point. I want you to explain why it wasn't random.
30/10/2012 02:14:59 PM
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It wasn't random because it was a self-selected sample!
30/10/2012 02:43:03 PM
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Re: It wasn't random because it was a self-selected sample!
30/10/2012 02:47:30 PM
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Go read a stats text will you?
30/10/2012 02:54:16 PM
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Done
31/10/2012 09:34:11 AM
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You seem to have perfected whining to a Talent...
10/11/2012 10:14:19 PM
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Re: You seem to have perfected whining to a Talent...
11/11/2012 11:37:16 AM
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Seriously? I went and looked at some statistics books, and you won't even reply?
01/11/2012 12:13:49 PM
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Yes that totally makes sense
30/10/2012 08:07:16 AM
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That's not what happened...
30/10/2012 02:01:52 PM
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I hate to get into these things
29/10/2012 05:45:50 PM
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I would love for you to be right, because it would solve all our problems, but 0 is the challenge...
29/10/2012 07:56:34 PM
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In the truest sense, you are probably right that it is skewed
29/10/2012 08:20:52 PM
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Overwhelm Lanfear, not match her. *NM*
29/10/2012 08:26:09 PM
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Truth is, Moiraine was being overly optimistic...
29/10/2012 08:39:17 PM
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You're pathetic...
30/10/2012 01:20:01 AM
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The quote isn't specific
30/10/2012 08:32:36 AM
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Yet neither of them are at full potential and at least equal a Forsaken
30/10/2012 03:45:24 PM
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Re: In the truest sense, you are probably right that it is skewed
29/10/2012 09:10:27 PM
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Lots of people mean perfectly normal distribution when they say it
30/10/2012 05:25:35 PM
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Couldn't the Towers method of obtaining Aes Sedai be to blame?
30/10/2012 12:04:01 AM
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Re: Couldn't the Towers method of obtaining Aes Sedai be to blame?
30/10/2012 09:33:44 AM
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Are you sure about that?
30/10/2012 12:03:43 PM
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Re: Are you sure about that?
30/10/2012 12:19:34 PM
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That doesn't seem a coherent narrative to me
30/10/2012 04:26:25 PM
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Sharina did not have the Spark, nor did Nicola
30/10/2012 05:16:40 PM
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Re: Sharina did not have the Spark, nor did Nicola
30/10/2012 05:54:41 PM
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We do not know if Cadsuane or any of the Forsaken are Sparkers
30/10/2012 10:33:55 PM
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Re: We do not know if Cadsuane or any of the Forsaken are Sparkers
31/10/2012 12:30:52 AM
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A handful of examples are all we have and we have proof that an extremely strong Channeler
31/10/2012 02:58:57 AM
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you're confusing 2 things
30/10/2012 04:27:32 AM
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One thing
30/10/2012 05:23:17 PM
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That's the problem. The BC RJ has "built" has a minimum and a maximum value
30/10/2012 05:48:55 PM
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