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I need to come and save you from blatant fallacies being spouted by the loonies. Shannow Send a noteboard - 28/10/2012 05:56:21 PM
Yeah, that's all wrong. For one thing, RJ said strength is distributed over a bell curve, not strength levels. You're plotting the wrong data points.

That said, obviously each level corresponds to a range on the strength scale (whatever it was in RJ's, we can take it to be 1-100 and it will still work the same). The 21 levels are distributed over this scale. We don't know if each level represents an equal interval in the strength scale, but assuming we do, we'd expect a peak around 10/11, which is where you find it. However, you also need to note that the sampling in that list is atrocious. We tend to see and hear more about stronger Aes Sedai and very little about women too weak to become AS. That definitely causes skewing. Plus, the list is very subjective, and tries to make quantitative differences between "strong" and "very strong" and such terms.

Oh, ok. I always assumed the levels were evenly distributed. Do you know if there exists a large collection of channeler strengths, enough to make a plot?

I guess making a comprehensive list would be like the mother of all those riddles where you get information like "The man in house number two drinks wine" and "The French officer is the neighbour of the man who has a dog".

RJ spoke of the same bell curve holding now. He said strength was distributed over a bell curve. That 67.5% of channelers in that curve would be strong enough to be Aes Sedai. That this is true only in the modern age, since in the AoL, anyone could become Aes Sedai. There's no doubt at all that its the same bell curve.


If RJ said it, why are we discussing it? Do you have a link to the quote?

But really, 67.5% of the channeling population strong enough to be Aes Sedai? Aren't they sending away a majority of the novices and accepted because they aren't strong enough? Or is it because the majority don't have "what it takes to be Aes Sedai"?


Firstly, channeling strength IS linked to genetics. It is blatantly incorrect to say that it is solely linked to the soul.

In fact, it is linked to both the soul and the body. If Lews Therin's soul was reborn into a body that does not have sufficient strength, he will be weaker in the One Power than in his previous incarnation.

So yes, a weaker channeling gene pool will serve to reduce average strength.

Secondly, great work in applying a Bell Curve to the estimated channeler strengths of known channelers. It indeed clearly shows that the curve now spikes way lower than it did in the Age of Legends.

Furthermore, RJ has confirmed that 62.5% of female channelers are strong enough to pass the Aes Sedai test (meaning they are as strong as Daigian or stronger). This means that only 12.5% of channelers lie between Daigian and the average strength channeler.

We know that Daigian is roughly one third as strong as Moiraine. And we know that Lanfear is FAR more than twice as strong as Moiraine (meaning that Moiraine has to lie below the average strength channeler).

All of this tells us that all modern Aes Sedai come from less than 12.5% of the total female channeling population. This HAS to be the case, because if 37.5% lie below Daigian, then 12.5% lie between Daigian and the average strength, and if Moiraine lies BELOW the average strength, then all modern sisters who fall between Daigian and Moiraine come from LESS than 12.5% of the total channeling population.

There it is. Irrefutable, if you believe in the Bell Curve hypothesis.
This message last edited by Shannow on 28/10/2012 at 06:00:30 PM
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Ch2 : Pevara & Androl and channeling implications - 24/10/2012 06:40:47 PM 2771 Views
Did Perva actually initiate the link or was it Androl? *NM* - 24/10/2012 07:02:15 PM 686 Views
Androl did. *NM* - 25/10/2012 05:10:31 AM 940 Views
But didn't Nynaeve do it first at the cleansing? - 25/10/2012 12:43:15 PM 1096 Views
Pevara was thinking on very sketchy information. - 25/10/2012 08:56:20 PM 1025 Views
did he start the link? or just take it? - 27/10/2012 07:33:49 AM 751 Views
I think it's slightly off - 28/10/2012 04:21:05 PM 1031 Views
Re: Ch2 : Pevara & Androl and channeling implications - 25/10/2012 05:13:43 AM 1249 Views
Re: Ch2 : Pevara & Androl and channeling implications - 25/10/2012 04:23:20 PM 1073 Views
Re: Ch2 : Pevara & Androl and channeling implications - 25/10/2012 09:52:03 PM 1122 Views
Travelling - 25/10/2012 08:56:41 AM 1112 Views
Yes that's a pet theory of mine - 25/10/2012 04:21:53 PM 1109 Views
Re: Yes that's a pet theory of mine - 25/10/2012 06:12:21 PM 1020 Views
Re: Yes that's a pet theory of mine - 25/10/2012 08:50:15 PM 979 Views
Re: Yes that's a pet theory of mine - 25/10/2012 09:45:26 PM 1053 Views
Weren't there 150 or so at Maradon? *NM* - 26/10/2012 03:29:53 PM 601 Views
Re: Yes that's a pet theory of mine - 26/10/2012 08:49:58 PM 1164 Views
Perhaps, but if no on in the AoL could do it when mixed circles were common - 28/10/2012 04:22:20 PM 856 Views
How strong Pevara is... - 25/10/2012 07:08:26 PM 1186 Views
I'm pretty sure Moiraine is closer to 30... - 25/10/2012 07:41:37 PM 920 Views
Agreed - 25/10/2012 08:37:24 PM 1012 Views
So... the old story of ignore the bell curve, eh? - 26/10/2012 01:40:49 AM 968 Views
No, I fully respect the bell curve - 26/10/2012 01:51:34 PM 1024 Views
That was disproved long ago... - 26/10/2012 01:36:24 AM 956 Views
But Moiraine isn't 'exceptionally strong' - 26/10/2012 05:16:10 AM 1023 Views
Not particularly strong evidence for that last. - 26/10/2012 05:36:54 AM 972 Views
But we know that it takes significantly more strength to maintain multiple weaves - 26/10/2012 08:14:58 AM 893 Views
Not true - 27/10/2012 09:15:51 PM 898 Views
Not accurate - 27/10/2012 09:31:05 PM 903 Views
The Bell Curve explained... - 26/10/2012 10:27:34 AM 957 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... - 26/10/2012 11:40:04 AM 949 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... - 26/10/2012 12:32:01 PM 873 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... - 26/10/2012 12:48:51 PM 972 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... - 26/10/2012 01:07:39 PM 957 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... - 26/10/2012 01:18:32 PM 985 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... - 26/10/2012 01:57:18 PM 1047 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... - 28/10/2012 02:07:39 PM 740 Views
Yet Sharina, Nynaeve etc exist, thus the BC is the same - 27/10/2012 09:39:58 PM 1043 Views
The curve is OBVIOUSLY the same... - 28/10/2012 01:50:37 AM 882 Views
Re: The curve is OBVIOUSLY the same... - 28/10/2012 02:01:59 PM 930 Views
You need to go read RJ's quotes: - 28/10/2012 02:41:49 PM 945 Views
Re: You need to go read RJ's quotes: - 28/10/2012 05:39:12 PM 858 Views
I need to come and save you from blatant fallacies being spouted by the loonies. - 28/10/2012 05:56:21 PM 847 Views
This is like watching a train-wreck. - 29/10/2012 02:58:51 AM 822 Views
Re: This is like watching a train-wreck. - 29/10/2012 01:10:35 PM 1027 Views
So what's your conclusion? - 29/10/2012 02:14:33 PM 794 Views
His conclusion is that RJ was right about the books he wrote... - 29/10/2012 02:19:59 PM 944 Views
Pretty much... - 30/10/2012 12:57:41 AM 1024 Views
Excellent points... - 29/10/2012 02:16:39 PM 790 Views
Re: Excellent points... - 29/10/2012 02:47:30 PM 913 Views
You seem confused. - 29/10/2012 03:22:47 PM 805 Views
Re: You seem confused. - 29/10/2012 03:41:48 PM 844 Views
I think the point is that the AS didn't go force every woman in the area - 29/10/2012 07:57:59 PM 807 Views
Re: You seem confused. - 29/10/2012 08:23:22 PM 933 Views
Re: You seem confused. - 29/10/2012 08:57:11 PM 934 Views
He drew graphs! - 30/10/2012 12:49:09 AM 819 Views
Re: He drew graphs! - 30/10/2012 07:43:54 AM 865 Views
Re: He drew graphs! - 30/10/2012 01:57:05 PM 855 Views
Re: Excellent points... - 30/10/2012 12:20:00 AM 857 Views
Re: Excellent points... - 30/10/2012 07:49:57 AM 887 Views
Re: Excellent points... - 30/10/2012 01:05:45 PM 1219 Views
Re: Excellent points... - 30/10/2012 01:25:11 PM 907 Views
Re: Excellent points... - 30/10/2012 12:20:17 AM 961 Views
AS recruiting is minimal - 28/10/2012 10:41:29 PM 883 Views
Re: You need to go read RJ's quotes: - 29/10/2012 02:23:27 AM 863 Views
Re: You need to go read RJ's quotes: - 29/10/2012 07:33:44 AM 837 Views
Huh? - 29/10/2012 02:26:27 PM 846 Views
Re: Huh? - 29/10/2012 02:42:07 PM 839 Views
You don't seem to know what random means... - 29/10/2012 03:25:57 PM 844 Views
Re: You don't seem to know what random means... - 29/10/2012 03:36:45 PM 884 Views
Personally I just think that 1000 women being allowed to tag along is a drop - 29/10/2012 08:05:33 PM 886 Views
Re: Personally I just think that 1000 women being allowed to tag along is a drop - 29/10/2012 09:04:02 PM 898 Views
Geography alone can do this - 30/10/2012 12:39:53 AM 850 Views
Re: Geography alone can do this - 30/10/2012 09:45:58 AM 833 Views
Not really - 30/10/2012 02:49:05 PM 815 Views
Here's why its not random... - 30/10/2012 01:04:18 AM 811 Views
Re: Here's why its not random... - 30/10/2012 09:42:35 AM 961 Views
Re: Here's why its not random... - 30/10/2012 01:51:03 PM 811 Views
Re: Here's why its not random... - 30/10/2012 02:21:04 PM 867 Views
YEah, there's no point debating this... - 30/10/2012 02:46:39 PM 814 Views
Genetics plays a role - 30/10/2012 03:03:41 PM 961 Views
Re: You don't seem to know what random means... - 29/10/2012 08:22:40 PM 810 Views
Re: You don't seem to know what random means... - 29/10/2012 09:06:08 PM 848 Views
Why must there be a mechanism? - 30/10/2012 01:06:29 AM 827 Views
Re: Why must there be a mechanism? - 30/10/2012 09:48:16 AM 753 Views
Nope... - 30/10/2012 01:43:56 PM 971 Views
Re: Nope... - 30/10/2012 02:34:51 PM 807 Views
Oh my... - 30/10/2012 02:50:12 PM 893 Views
Thought experment time! Hurrah! - 30/10/2012 03:27:01 PM 821 Views
But it is still possible in your example to get wildly varied results - 30/10/2012 03:30:59 PM 754 Views
Re: But it is still possible in your example to get wildly varied results - 30/10/2012 03:36:03 PM 856 Views
LOL - 30/10/2012 04:49:06 PM 1374 Views
Re: Yet Sharina, Nynaeve etc exist, thus the BC is the same - 28/10/2012 01:39:55 PM 824 Views
The point is there are still people being born in the highest strength categories - 28/10/2012 04:18:55 PM 860 Views
Re: The point is there are still people being born in the highest strength categories - 28/10/2012 05:21:44 PM 851 Views
The curve hasn't shifted! - 28/10/2012 05:39:42 PM 932 Views
The fact is, Moiraine is not half as strong as Lanfear, hence she is below average strength. - 28/10/2012 06:02:04 PM 866 Views
How is this fact? - 29/10/2012 02:59:49 AM 888 Views
Re: How is this fact? - 29/10/2012 07:04:15 PM 863 Views
Not so - 29/10/2012 08:09:29 PM 834 Views
Re: Not so - 29/10/2012 08:43:16 PM 907 Views
Sure it is - 30/10/2012 01:43:39 AM 794 Views
Explain Elza-Merise-Cadsuane then... - 29/10/2012 08:20:14 PM 834 Views
Re: Explain Elza-Merise-Cadsuane then... - 29/10/2012 08:38:11 PM 853 Views
Are you blind man? - 30/10/2012 01:12:26 AM 876 Views
Re: Are you blind man? - 30/10/2012 09:23:37 AM 916 Views
Cadsuane is just below Egwene... - 30/10/2012 01:37:54 PM 836 Views
Your strength scores don't square with the Pevara quote - 30/10/2012 03:15:22 PM 840 Views
Re: The curve hasn't shifted! - 28/10/2012 07:36:36 PM 858 Views
On Raw strength scores I think you are pretty inline with my thinking - 27/10/2012 09:37:25 PM 999 Views
And the facing a Foresaken comment is out of context anyway... - 28/10/2012 01:56:12 AM 960 Views
Excellent point on raw v. Effective strength *NM* - 28/10/2012 04:13:21 PM 601 Views

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