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Re: The Bell Curve explained... Shannow Send a noteboard - 26/10/2012 01:07:39 PM
Everyone today is below average. Because channelers are weaker today.

In other words, the Bell Curve would apply symmetrically to the channeling population of the Age of Legends. The remnants that are left today, on the other hand, mostly come from the bottom part of that Bell Curve.


The defining property of a bell curve is that it shows the probability of finding a given value, as a function of the value, and that this probability distribution is shaped like a bell (hence the name), with the highest probability found at the average value.

I get that channelers are weaker in the Third Age, and are mostly found in the bottom half when using the same scale as during the Age of Legends. So while you can certainly use the same scale to discuss the strength of channelers in the Third Age and in the Age of Legends, it makes no sense to talk about the same bell curve, because the distribution of strengths are not the same.


We're saying exactly the same thing.

That a different distribution applied to the Age of Legends population as opposed to the Third Age population.

And I'm saying that the only way that RJ's "Bell Curve" description of channeler distribution can fit the facts as presented in the books, is if the Bell Curve he was referring to is the Age of Legends distribution, not the Third Age distribution.

Because, (to use the simplest possible example), on a Bell Curve the strongest possible channeler will be exactly twice the strength of the average channeler, and we know that it takes about 3 channelers of Moiraine's strength to match a Lanfear level channeler, therefore Moiraine cannot be higher than about 30 on the strength scale.

Hence the average strength channeler at 50 is almost twice as strong as Moiraine.

Clearly, therefore, all Aes Sedai weaker than Moiraine (which equates to about 99% of them) must fall under the lower part of the curve.

You cannot get away from that simple argument.

Hence the Bell Curve cannot apply to the modern day distribution of known channelers.

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Ch2 : Pevara & Androl and channeling implications - 24/10/2012 06:40:47 PM 2771 Views
Did Perva actually initiate the link or was it Androl? *NM* - 24/10/2012 07:02:15 PM 686 Views
Androl did. *NM* - 25/10/2012 05:10:31 AM 940 Views
But didn't Nynaeve do it first at the cleansing? - 25/10/2012 12:43:15 PM 1096 Views
Pevara was thinking on very sketchy information. - 25/10/2012 08:56:20 PM 1025 Views
did he start the link? or just take it? - 27/10/2012 07:33:49 AM 751 Views
I think it's slightly off - 28/10/2012 04:21:05 PM 1031 Views
Re: Ch2 : Pevara & Androl and channeling implications - 25/10/2012 05:13:43 AM 1249 Views
Re: Ch2 : Pevara & Androl and channeling implications - 25/10/2012 04:23:20 PM 1073 Views
Re: Ch2 : Pevara & Androl and channeling implications - 25/10/2012 09:52:03 PM 1122 Views
Travelling - 25/10/2012 08:56:41 AM 1112 Views
Yes that's a pet theory of mine - 25/10/2012 04:21:53 PM 1109 Views
Re: Yes that's a pet theory of mine - 25/10/2012 06:12:21 PM 1020 Views
Re: Yes that's a pet theory of mine - 25/10/2012 08:50:15 PM 979 Views
Re: Yes that's a pet theory of mine - 25/10/2012 09:45:26 PM 1053 Views
Weren't there 150 or so at Maradon? *NM* - 26/10/2012 03:29:53 PM 601 Views
Re: Yes that's a pet theory of mine - 26/10/2012 08:49:58 PM 1164 Views
Perhaps, but if no on in the AoL could do it when mixed circles were common - 28/10/2012 04:22:20 PM 856 Views
How strong Pevara is... - 25/10/2012 07:08:26 PM 1187 Views
I'm pretty sure Moiraine is closer to 30... - 25/10/2012 07:41:37 PM 920 Views
Agreed - 25/10/2012 08:37:24 PM 1013 Views
So... the old story of ignore the bell curve, eh? - 26/10/2012 01:40:49 AM 968 Views
No, I fully respect the bell curve - 26/10/2012 01:51:34 PM 1024 Views
That was disproved long ago... - 26/10/2012 01:36:24 AM 957 Views
But Moiraine isn't 'exceptionally strong' - 26/10/2012 05:16:10 AM 1023 Views
Not particularly strong evidence for that last. - 26/10/2012 05:36:54 AM 972 Views
But we know that it takes significantly more strength to maintain multiple weaves - 26/10/2012 08:14:58 AM 893 Views
Not true - 27/10/2012 09:15:51 PM 898 Views
Not accurate - 27/10/2012 09:31:05 PM 903 Views
The Bell Curve explained... - 26/10/2012 10:27:34 AM 957 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... - 26/10/2012 11:40:04 AM 949 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... - 26/10/2012 12:32:01 PM 874 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... - 26/10/2012 12:48:51 PM 972 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... - 26/10/2012 01:07:39 PM 958 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... - 26/10/2012 01:18:32 PM 985 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... - 26/10/2012 01:57:18 PM 1048 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... - 28/10/2012 02:07:39 PM 740 Views
Yet Sharina, Nynaeve etc exist, thus the BC is the same - 27/10/2012 09:39:58 PM 1043 Views
The curve is OBVIOUSLY the same... - 28/10/2012 01:50:37 AM 882 Views
Re: The curve is OBVIOUSLY the same... - 28/10/2012 02:01:59 PM 930 Views
You need to go read RJ's quotes: - 28/10/2012 02:41:49 PM 945 Views
Re: You need to go read RJ's quotes: - 28/10/2012 05:39:12 PM 858 Views
I need to come and save you from blatant fallacies being spouted by the loonies. - 28/10/2012 05:56:21 PM 847 Views
This is like watching a train-wreck. - 29/10/2012 02:58:51 AM 822 Views
Re: This is like watching a train-wreck. - 29/10/2012 01:10:35 PM 1027 Views
So what's your conclusion? - 29/10/2012 02:14:33 PM 794 Views
His conclusion is that RJ was right about the books he wrote... - 29/10/2012 02:19:59 PM 944 Views
Pretty much... - 30/10/2012 12:57:41 AM 1024 Views
Excellent points... - 29/10/2012 02:16:39 PM 790 Views
Re: Excellent points... - 29/10/2012 02:47:30 PM 913 Views
You seem confused. - 29/10/2012 03:22:47 PM 805 Views
Re: You seem confused. - 29/10/2012 03:41:48 PM 844 Views
I think the point is that the AS didn't go force every woman in the area - 29/10/2012 07:57:59 PM 807 Views
Re: You seem confused. - 29/10/2012 08:23:22 PM 933 Views
Re: You seem confused. - 29/10/2012 08:57:11 PM 934 Views
He drew graphs! - 30/10/2012 12:49:09 AM 819 Views
Re: He drew graphs! - 30/10/2012 07:43:54 AM 865 Views
Re: He drew graphs! - 30/10/2012 01:57:05 PM 855 Views
Re: Excellent points... - 30/10/2012 12:20:00 AM 857 Views
Re: Excellent points... - 30/10/2012 07:49:57 AM 887 Views
Re: Excellent points... - 30/10/2012 01:05:45 PM 1219 Views
Re: Excellent points... - 30/10/2012 01:25:11 PM 907 Views
Re: Excellent points... - 30/10/2012 12:20:17 AM 961 Views
AS recruiting is minimal - 28/10/2012 10:41:29 PM 884 Views
Re: You need to go read RJ's quotes: - 29/10/2012 02:23:27 AM 863 Views
Re: You need to go read RJ's quotes: - 29/10/2012 07:33:44 AM 837 Views
Huh? - 29/10/2012 02:26:27 PM 846 Views
Re: Huh? - 29/10/2012 02:42:07 PM 839 Views
You don't seem to know what random means... - 29/10/2012 03:25:57 PM 844 Views
Re: You don't seem to know what random means... - 29/10/2012 03:36:45 PM 884 Views
Personally I just think that 1000 women being allowed to tag along is a drop - 29/10/2012 08:05:33 PM 886 Views
Re: Personally I just think that 1000 women being allowed to tag along is a drop - 29/10/2012 09:04:02 PM 898 Views
Geography alone can do this - 30/10/2012 12:39:53 AM 850 Views
Re: Geography alone can do this - 30/10/2012 09:45:58 AM 833 Views
Not really - 30/10/2012 02:49:05 PM 815 Views
Here's why its not random... - 30/10/2012 01:04:18 AM 811 Views
Re: Here's why its not random... - 30/10/2012 09:42:35 AM 962 Views
Re: Here's why its not random... - 30/10/2012 01:51:03 PM 811 Views
Re: Here's why its not random... - 30/10/2012 02:21:04 PM 867 Views
YEah, there's no point debating this... - 30/10/2012 02:46:39 PM 814 Views
Genetics plays a role - 30/10/2012 03:03:41 PM 961 Views
Re: You don't seem to know what random means... - 29/10/2012 08:22:40 PM 810 Views
Re: You don't seem to know what random means... - 29/10/2012 09:06:08 PM 848 Views
Why must there be a mechanism? - 30/10/2012 01:06:29 AM 827 Views
Re: Why must there be a mechanism? - 30/10/2012 09:48:16 AM 753 Views
Nope... - 30/10/2012 01:43:56 PM 971 Views
Re: Nope... - 30/10/2012 02:34:51 PM 807 Views
Oh my... - 30/10/2012 02:50:12 PM 893 Views
Thought experment time! Hurrah! - 30/10/2012 03:27:01 PM 821 Views
But it is still possible in your example to get wildly varied results - 30/10/2012 03:30:59 PM 754 Views
Re: But it is still possible in your example to get wildly varied results - 30/10/2012 03:36:03 PM 856 Views
LOL - 30/10/2012 04:49:06 PM 1374 Views
Re: Yet Sharina, Nynaeve etc exist, thus the BC is the same - 28/10/2012 01:39:55 PM 824 Views
The point is there are still people being born in the highest strength categories - 28/10/2012 04:18:55 PM 860 Views
Re: The point is there are still people being born in the highest strength categories - 28/10/2012 05:21:44 PM 851 Views
The curve hasn't shifted! - 28/10/2012 05:39:42 PM 932 Views
The fact is, Moiraine is not half as strong as Lanfear, hence she is below average strength. - 28/10/2012 06:02:04 PM 866 Views
How is this fact? - 29/10/2012 02:59:49 AM 888 Views
Re: How is this fact? - 29/10/2012 07:04:15 PM 864 Views
Not so - 29/10/2012 08:09:29 PM 834 Views
Re: Not so - 29/10/2012 08:43:16 PM 907 Views
Sure it is - 30/10/2012 01:43:39 AM 795 Views
Explain Elza-Merise-Cadsuane then... - 29/10/2012 08:20:14 PM 834 Views
Re: Explain Elza-Merise-Cadsuane then... - 29/10/2012 08:38:11 PM 853 Views
Are you blind man? - 30/10/2012 01:12:26 AM 876 Views
Re: Are you blind man? - 30/10/2012 09:23:37 AM 916 Views
Cadsuane is just below Egwene... - 30/10/2012 01:37:54 PM 836 Views
Your strength scores don't square with the Pevara quote - 30/10/2012 03:15:22 PM 841 Views
Re: The curve hasn't shifted! - 28/10/2012 07:36:36 PM 858 Views
On Raw strength scores I think you are pretty inline with my thinking - 27/10/2012 09:37:25 PM 999 Views
And the facing a Foresaken comment is out of context anyway... - 28/10/2012 01:56:12 AM 960 Views
Excellent point on raw v. Effective strength *NM* - 28/10/2012 04:13:21 PM 601 Views

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