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Well... it's a bit late in the game... DomA Send a noteboard - 09/10/2012 02:04:16 AM
I ask this because when I do an occasional peek-in at this board, most of what I see seems to be arguments regarding fantasy physics than anything approaching a discussion of what the series as a whole would "mean" in regards to thematic issues.

What's to be taken from this series? That an author spent years before his death introducing minutiae for obsessive fans to debate, or is there something else to it?

It'd be interesting to see discussion of potential themes and their possible resolutions here rather than the fantasy physics version of dick size and how one uses it in...umm...opening gateways ;)


The big discussions on the themes of the series and their resolution happened years ago and there isn't that much left to say on the topic (those who try elsewhere often run into debates over the change of writer, though how he succeeded staying true to the series's themes is one of the better aspects of Brandon's work) especially since TGS resolved the central theme of the late series (Rand falling more and more into the nihilistic worldview of Moridin, which we found out during RJ's disease related to very personal experiences in Vietnam, namely that it turned him into what he called The Iceman, after O'Neil, and a an "alter ego" he had to leave behind (he said literally "kill the bastard and bury him" to be fit to return to a normal life in America again. A big part of WOT is a exorcist through fiction of that part of his life, while the rest owes a great deal to his youth and the communities he lived in). In a larger way it's a Fantasy projection of many themes and issues from the 60s-70s - not in a comprehensive and allegoric way, but some of those that resonated more particularly with RJ, from his mix of sympathy/loathing for the pacifists of the anti-Vietnam movement (he translated his mixed views to Perrin - in short it's some admiration for pacifism doubled with a profound conviction there are moral justifications for war, and even cases of moral duty) to his views on some of "ghosts" of the South, slavery for instance. There is also a profound nostalgia which is pretty close to that of Tolkien... Tolkien, who pretty much loathed modern literature, inspired himself from old epics, and everyone knows how his works where deeply inspired by a certain lament for the pre-industrial past of England. We've got something extremely similar with Jordan, a nostalgia for golden age America pretty typical of the Vietnam generation, and even more for some southern cultural and family values and ways of life that remain alive to an extent - a certain way to see community life etc. A big difference is that like many Americans of his generation, who grew up among the huge transformations of the 50s-60s-70s RJ seemed thorn between a deep attraction for progress and modernism while also remaining deeply attached to certain "old values" and an old-fashioned way of life in his social milieu in Charleston. These issues he carried in fiction mostly a great deal with the character of Nynaeve. If we scratch the surface a little, there's the projection of the Kennedy vs. Nixon type of political figures also typical of RJ's generation, only a little more developped and less caricatural than what you could find about it in the work of another creator from this generation, George Lucas. Another very American "issue" RJ was inspired from, I suspect he got that a lot from having Louis L'Amour as one of his all-time favourite writers, are the north American native people, a lot of their struggles (and culture) got translated into the Aiel. Of course there's in WOT a lot other "generational elements", from the propensity to give Evil clear Nazi overtones (yet another point common to SW and WoT) - you find this a lot among writers who grew up right after WWII - to the expected elements inspired by the specters of the cold war, mostly from RJ's adolescent and young adult perceptions I would guess(the series was mostly conceived during the Reagan-Thatcher-Gorbachev-Khol years) which we find in WOT in various guises and at various levels (without falling into straight allegory, again.. RJ was also keen to integrate references from various eras and cultures into a single creation of his), from the McCarthyist overtones of the male channeler issues to the Choedan Kal as the series' doomsday device to barely more disguised plot elements, like the series' finale featuring the world split neatly in two camps for the Light, opposed viscerally to one another in values and worldview yet facing the same issue that the world might be about to end if they don't resolve their conflict (I mean, seriously... who would deny Rand vs. the Seanchan draws massively from both the cold war and in other respects on the war of secession, completed with the "Cuba crisis" moment as Rand his hand on the Choedal Kal in TGS nearly balefired the Seanchan).

As for literary influence, there's again the certain nostalgia for older forms found in Tolkien, but with Jordan it isn't ancient literature but the golden age of serials (mostly Dumas, a huge influence confirmed to me by a family member) and the American popular classics, from Louis L'Amour's novels to Twain and in general the pulp/adventure books (anything from spy novels to historical sagas to SF) beloved by boys who grew up in the 50s.

Beyond that, RJ's themes are in a large part derived from mythology and therefore all pretty classic (in the modern sense, as one of RJ's "innovations" in Fantasy was his expansion way beyond the usual pan-European myths, his larger influences being rather Asian but ranging to lesser known cultures, and even going for local folklore... there are a few southern folk references, starting with the Black Sisters, a 18th century tale from the area RJ grew up in), from Solar Men to Lunar Women and so on and so forth. There's full of material there for students and such, RJ's popularism makes them even very accessible for beginners in literary analysis, but for people a bit read on the topic, there's only so much to discuss there without repeating the arguments of classics works like Joseph Campbell, M. Eliade and so on.

As for resolution, so far it's the expected thematically, and what's coming will likely follow the same path... an endgame that will likely involve a lot of personal/spiritual transformation, more than some think. The Seanchan Empire is likely to be forced to begin its glasnost phase soon, and the epilogue should leave the world facing big challenges and a lot of possibilities instead of a purely "happy ending", a bit like the post-Reagan end of the century America and its mix of big unexpected changes, paradigm shifts, big hopes of a "new world order" to define and depression/apprehensions. The world of the early 90s projected into Fantasy from an American perspective, in a way.
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So when the book/series ends, what will it have all meant? - 08/10/2012 09:47:49 PM 1908 Views
Years of enjoyment. What else do you expect from fiction? - 08/10/2012 10:17:30 PM 905 Views
I expect a lot from fiction, to be honest - 09/10/2012 02:43:59 AM 927 Views
HAHAHA! - 08/10/2012 10:17:58 PM 967 Views
Yeah, the use of my time does matter - 09/10/2012 02:45:15 AM 885 Views
Not sure I'd call it mindless - 09/10/2012 02:53:00 AM 867 Views
Well, it is a bit more complex than a D&D novel - 09/10/2012 02:55:40 AM 868 Views
I'm not really a huge fiction reader to begin with - 09/10/2012 11:25:34 PM 760 Views
I've noticed that quite a few here/wotmania have not been big fiction (fantasy) readers - 11/10/2012 05:48:02 AM 847 Views
Re: I've noticed that quite a few here/wotmania have not been big fiction (fantasy) readers - 12/10/2012 05:11:20 PM 789 Views
I like the TV series ... It's gritty - 13/10/2012 11:44:06 PM 750 Views
Well... it's a bit late in the game... - 09/10/2012 02:04:16 AM 966 Views
True, but it's never too late to ask people such questions - 09/10/2012 02:49:28 AM 769 Views
I'm not sure... - 09/10/2012 06:03:08 AM 781 Views
Well, we may be in closer agreement then - 09/10/2012 06:43:50 PM 819 Views
Re: Well, we may be in closer agreement then - 09/10/2012 11:08:49 PM 889 Views
Re: Well, we may be in closer agreement then - 11/10/2012 06:14:27 AM 699 Views
Re: I'm not sure... - 11/10/2012 06:15:26 PM 751 Views
There's a reason for this... - 09/10/2012 02:11:21 AM 867 Views
True - 09/10/2012 02:54:12 AM 899 Views
Re: True - 09/10/2012 06:19:42 AM 778 Views
I am now visualizing WoT as a telenovela adaptation - 09/10/2012 06:59:11 PM 748 Views
everything about Lanfear screams TeleNovela! - 11/10/2012 04:38:03 AM 697 Views
Por ella, soy Luisa Therin? - 11/10/2012 05:44:32 AM 777 Views
All of the names would have to be longer and more pompous - 11/10/2012 03:54:30 PM 648 Views
Not in this particular telenovela adaptation - 11/10/2012 05:48:06 PM 996 Views
Re: So when the book/series ends, what will it have all meant? - 11/10/2012 10:52:01 AM 757 Views
It will have meant.. . - 11/10/2012 06:59:43 PM 739 Views
So... - 11/10/2012 07:05:41 PM 800 Views
For me, yes. - 11/10/2012 07:45:25 PM 673 Views
I would think for most the money spent wasn't too bad - 11/10/2012 08:07:49 PM 939 Views
I got my money's worth, oh yes. - 12/10/2012 07:59:58 PM 719 Views
I'm not sure it means anything. - 11/10/2012 08:10:45 PM 871 Views
I'm not sure there is too much meaning - 15/10/2012 05:57:57 PM 755 Views

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