And correlation is perfectly find. It's been demonstrated that strength and gateways correlate for so long, I can't believe its even a debate. The world's strongest man also has the largest gateways, and the Forsaken we've seen create larger gateways aren't far behind. Compare this to the fact that no weak channelers can Travel and strong Aes Sedai can. No one has claimed that its a directly linear relationship - some Aes Sedai can make a gateway that their hand can fit through and with some extra strength its suddenly big enough for a whole person. I love how you two would see a large gateway and assume that the channeler is not necessarily strong. It's totally true that it may be Androl weaving the gateway, but any betting man would point and say 'hey that must be a strong channeler.'... and they'd be right.



And I have maintained from the beginning that Talent is definitely the most powerful factor, it's just probably not all that present in channelers. It's probably the weave that correlates with strength the most. If you have Talent you jump up, if not, your gateway is smaller.


No that's incorrect. The weave has to work if you weave it. Its your inability to modulate the weave that makes you weak. And because I think strong channelers seem to have a greater affinity with the Power, its probable that they are more likely to be able to modulate weaves. We've never seen an Aes Sedai who can't Heal. That isn't proof that everyone has Talent to some degree. It's proof that most people don't have Talent and it still works.


I have never said she would, but with the CK she would still Heal better than unaided.


I only half-agree. I think a strong male with a weak Talent would probably make a marginally smaller gateway than someone of equal strength. And even then, I'm not so sure - he might be able to 'waste' more saidin making it large.


And this is my belief with most weaves. You can probably Heal better if you pick up an angreal. That doesn't mean you're going to be as good as Nynaeve, but maybe you'll struggle less.


But its debatable if that is even Talent. Talent is innate ability, not practiced ability. Most people can probably improve their skills in all weaves with practice, doesn't mean their Talent is improving.


Inborn ability vs Practice... it's a different debate.


And I've said since the beginning that strength is partially responsible, but its predictable enough for channelers to gauge strength. Rand has been speaking of Dedicated strong enough to make gateways to let a cart through for ages. He even mentions how some men have jumped in strength and that their gateways are larger.


Sure - show me a strong channeler who has ever said they cannot do something with the Power. I'm not talking about performing a great feat or saying that they're pathetic with the weave. Show me inability. Show me 'Egwene stood back. I cannot perform this because I have no Talent.' There isn't. They can get by even if its sometimes tough.


Egwene is very Talented with cuendillar so I don't understand your point. But take Verin who perhaps struggles or cannot make cuendillar and if you give her a sa'angreal she might be able to. Verin herself used an angreal to make Compulsion easier on a woman.


So? You're missing my point. I claimed she could Heal, which she can. You're twisting my words to make it seem like every person with a sa'angreal or high strength can do anything with the Power to any degree. I never said that.


So what are you saying... that extreme strength means he obviously can Heal? That's my claim.


Sharina not being in the tent means nothing. But I do believe that she probably can make cuendillar because she is so powerful, maybe not nearly like Egwene but she could probably do most things even if weakly.


And what exactly can we say about any channeler if we have to sample the entire population? When Siuan got a sa'angreal she could suddenly Travel. And no, I don't know if this will apply to the other 1000 women in the series, but I'm pretty sure it does.


I've never said its purely strength ever. Logain respects the most likely explanation. "You're 8 foot tall, you must have bigger feet than me". Could he be wrong? Sure.


A Talent endemic in strong channelers...


Honestly... who cares if there are flaws? A careful study?... you're too scientific. There are always outliers in nature and maybe you are correct that people of different strength don't have the same gateway - we don't know. As I said, correlation is perfectly fine. Logain knows that a bigger gateway than his is surely a sign of higher strength. A Talent is probably uncommon.

Incidentally Androl's gateway is not bigger than Rand's... I don't know who brought that up. It can fit a cart, and many Asha'man can duplicate this. Many men can make larger gateways, which proves that Androl is limited by his strength. I'd be interested to see what he can do with an angreal - and it's obvious... it will be as big as Rand's because that is the upper limit for one man.