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The point is the same regardless darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 03/10/2012 05:14:36 AM
That is like saying everyone who is tall will play basketball. Point being there is no black and white correlation for these things ... It's a Nature vs. Nurture argument which to me means its a combination of things.

Moiraine has a great Talent for Healing but opted to follow her cause and join the Blue, but she still goes out of her way in many instances to Heal others, on many occasions draining herself when another may have walked away.

Asha'man making weapons who were not Smiths could be as simple as no opportunity for them ... It is a rather specialized skill in WOT so the odds of them all being Smiths are slim.


These are two bad examples, though. Moiraine is good at the "heal all" weave. It doesn't even work on the same principles as real five power healing, which isn't a weave, but using the OP in different ways depending on the ailment. The old style Healing Moiraine's good at has not much at all to do with medicine, unlike what Nynaeve does. She puzzle out the exact problem with delving and intuitively fix it using the five flows in incredibly complex combinations.

As for the Asha'man, they don't "make weapons" per se, they do something to the metal/alliage as a skilled smith is forging it into a weapon.






What Moiraine does still requires the Talent and was meant to address the point on empathy as much as anything else ... The Asha'man example was from Sidious, I was pointing out how slim the chances of so many men having the opportunity to be blacksmiths would be
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
This message last edited by darius_sedai on 03/10/2012 at 05:17:41 AM
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Problems with gateways Narg - 28/09/2012 05:02:47 PM 2807 Views
Uh, yeah, well, whenever you notice something like that... a wizard did it. *NM* Tom - 28/09/2012 05:47:13 PM 619 Views
Yeah, I realize that raising physics questions about fantasy books can be absurd... Narg - 28/09/2012 06:03:05 PM 1016 Views
It's been discussed before... DomA - 28/09/2012 06:04:35 PM 1353 Views
I would agree with this A Deathwatch Guard - 28/09/2012 06:35:14 PM 1019 Views
Re: I would agree with this DomA - 28/09/2012 06:56:57 PM 1164 Views
Egwene would likely also know since she puzzled it out as well darius_sedai - 28/09/2012 07:28:22 PM 1124 Views
Especially when opening a gateway into a void like in Skimming (though that is probably T'A'R too) Onarishma - 04/10/2012 03:13:29 PM 1038 Views
Regarding shadowspawn: Narg - 28/09/2012 07:19:38 PM 1301 Views
Isn't there a quote somewhere about this? darius_sedai - 28/09/2012 07:30:40 PM 1154 Views
There is echooff - 28/09/2012 07:52:30 PM 1032 Views
Can Fain pass through a Gateway? Marshall - 28/09/2012 08:11:59 PM 1073 Views
Re: Can Fain pass through a Gateway? DomA - 02/10/2012 02:37:58 AM 1052 Views
Here's a neat idea Marshall - 28/09/2012 08:07:52 PM 1195 Views
Found an interesting quote when I was looking into something else darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 12:57:21 AM 842 Views
I don't think RJ thought about it Sidious - 28/09/2012 07:44:34 PM 1054 Views
Absurd question... fionwe1987 - 28/09/2012 10:44:53 PM 1080 Views
Doesn't it meet your standards? Sidious - 29/09/2012 07:47:12 AM 1153 Views
Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... fionwe1987 - 28/09/2012 11:02:39 PM 1252 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... LoialT - 28/09/2012 11:12:54 PM 1062 Views
Wow, that makes a lot of sense. *NM* Dreadlord - 01/10/2012 07:30:22 PM 546 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... DomA - 01/10/2012 09:03:47 PM 1270 Views
Androl throws a kink in this darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 01:14:16 AM 1045 Views
Re: Androl throws a kink in this DomA - 02/10/2012 02:30:23 AM 1216 Views
He said he can make one large enough for a Wagon to pass through darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 03:23:26 AM 964 Views
Gateway Talent I'd say Sidious - 02/10/2012 08:55:26 AM 1062 Views
I think Androl is proof that gateways are more about a the Talent than strength darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 09:00:26 AM 1096 Views
No I think they're more about strength Sidious - 02/10/2012 09:27:17 AM 1230 Views
I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 04:47:59 PM 1033 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this Sidious - 03/10/2012 07:04:11 AM 1074 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this fionwe1987 - 03/10/2012 07:43:12 AM 1085 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this Sidious - 03/10/2012 09:59:13 AM 1052 Views
Egwene could not heal Gawyn darius_sedai - 03/10/2012 02:34:08 PM 1128 Views
She did Heal him Sidious - 04/10/2012 08:30:14 AM 1018 Views
and *gasp* maybe breeding. Onarishma - 04/10/2012 05:36:59 PM 1030 Views
Re-read some stuff darius_sedai - 04/10/2012 07:57:50 PM 1081 Views
Re: Re-read some stuff Sidious - 05/10/2012 08:22:06 AM 906 Views
Um she tries out of desperation? darius_sedai - 05/10/2012 03:06:59 PM 1065 Views
Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct darius_sedai - 03/10/2012 02:13:08 PM 1286 Views
But his thought processes are sound Sidious - 04/10/2012 08:20:13 AM 964 Views
It's in Chapter 5 of TGS darius_sedai - 04/10/2012 09:48:49 PM 1059 Views
Re: It's in Chapter 5 of TGS Sidious - 05/10/2012 08:28:13 AM 987 Views
Why was Flinn so late and why bring up his Gateway? darius_sedai - 05/10/2012 04:15:47 PM 1026 Views
Ummm... fionwe1987 - 05/10/2012 08:42:19 PM 982 Views
Re: Ummm... Sidious - 06/10/2012 07:53:10 AM 1091 Views
I don't think RJ changed his mind darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 03:13:44 PM 927 Views
Re: I don't think RJ changed his mind DomA - 07/10/2012 07:28:38 PM 1137 Views
I wasn't being very clear darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 09:45:15 PM 1062 Views
I think he did Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:32:35 PM 1060 Views
Maybe darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 07:48:24 PM 976 Views
still don't think that's proof. It's just practical. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 07:06:15 PM 937 Views
Interesting point you bring up about fighting for control darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 03:44:26 AM 930 Views
She wouldn't have to guess! Onarishma - 09/10/2012 08:43:54 PM 963 Views
Really? Where is that quote? All we've heard is a woman needs to be strong enough darius_sedai - 09/10/2012 11:44:15 PM 966 Views
There is only one book left. It is definitely not LIKELY Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:06:04 PM 1000 Views
I can agree with most of that ... I simply believe that the Talent dictates the amount of strength darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 03:53:21 AM 926 Views
Exactly... fionwe1987 - 10/10/2012 12:35:16 AM 844 Views
Re: Exactly... Sidious - 10/10/2012 10:29:13 AM 903 Views
Re: Exactly... fionwe1987 - 10/10/2012 10:06:08 PM 1009 Views
AND... darius_sedai - 10/10/2012 10:15:14 PM 874 Views
Re: AND... Sidious - 11/10/2012 04:46:31 PM 1025 Views
Again THANK YOU! Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:35:10 PM 850 Views
Re: AND... darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:09:25 AM 970 Views
Re: AND... Sidious - 12/10/2012 08:57:46 AM 1008 Views
I only discount direct statements when we are explicitly shown that they are incorrect darius_sedai - 13/10/2012 06:55:38 PM 953 Views
Because let's be honest, it's rarely a Talent and you both know it Sidious - 11/10/2012 04:44:27 PM 1015 Views
TY!!! Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:38:44 PM 1039 Views
You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:13:06 AM 1198 Views
Re: You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise Sidious - 12/10/2012 08:52:02 AM 991 Views
Are you reading mine? darius_sedai - 13/10/2012 07:09:02 PM 919 Views
Apoplexy, that is what is happening on my side of the screen Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:31:30 PM 764 Views
the fact that Egwene is proven incorrect on this any number of times? darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:14:35 AM 1028 Views
THANK YOU!!! Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:26:49 PM 961 Views
Re: Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct Onarishma - 04/10/2012 09:51:08 PM 964 Views
to the point on the Circle darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 09:36:18 PM 1011 Views
Circles don't add the Talents... fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 03:34:47 AM 966 Views
I had forgotten about Brendas! darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 05:15:52 AM 967 Views
I've been thinking about this darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 10:11:22 PM 924 Views
Circles give added precision, remember? fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 11:27:05 PM 965 Views
I get that, but the evidence in front of me from the text is inconsistent to the quote darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 12:11:15 AM 835 Views
Circles of larger numbers give added benefit... fionwe1987 - 08/10/2012 02:00:58 AM 1016 Views
Egwene with a sa'angreal might be like 15x her natural strength, so maybe 9-10x Rand darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 02:59:26 AM 911 Views
Highly doubtful... fionwe1987 - 08/10/2012 01:36:47 PM 952 Views
Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text. darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 03:31:20 PM 931 Views
Re: Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text. Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:57:04 PM 942 Views
That is actually the crux of my issue darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 07:52:52 PM 922 Views
That's why its called exponential. It is NOT linear and that why the gains look ridiculous Onarishma - 11/10/2012 10:00:15 PM 967 Views
Yet that only explains when a circle does certain things darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:18:36 AM 964 Views
the text is not inconsistent. Onarishma - 19/10/2012 08:20:52 PM 1420 Views
I see, it only counts when it supports your point! Why didn't I think of that! darius_sedai - 20/10/2012 03:58:27 AM 1064 Views
RJ specifically said that was ONLY because of Forsaken skill level Onarishma - 11/10/2012 09:02:03 PM 952 Views
Not so much darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:28:44 AM 957 Views
I'm still arguing about this but I think the evidence is that AS holding a shield are not linked. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:59:20 PM 1015 Views
I've given this point some thought too ... It's a dicey subject darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:22:23 AM 884 Views
THAT is proof of the power of LINKING. This is why thirteen Morgases could smash Rand. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:41:45 PM 846 Views
It's one example that supports the exponential increase ... not arguing that darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:40:08 AM 959 Views
Re: to the point on the Circle Onarishma - 07/10/2012 06:09:48 PM 937 Views
Healing is a thing of the physical body darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 09:50:37 PM 982 Views
Suian was stilled for hiding these boys. obviously trust was the issue. not healing skill. *NM* Onarishma - 11/10/2012 10:11:50 PM 442 Views
Didn't I just say that? darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:31:22 AM 926 Views
That's what makes a Talent a Talent.... Onarishma - 04/10/2012 05:02:36 PM 960 Views
There is so much evidence against this darius_sedai - 04/10/2012 08:04:45 PM 1051 Views
Androl does not match Rands Gateway size. Onarishma - 05/10/2012 05:59:34 PM 1042 Views
Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent. fionwe1987 - 05/10/2012 08:51:58 PM 919 Views
+500 ... Well said sir! *NM* darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 04:52:38 AM 736 Views
He's referring to skimming Sidious - 06/10/2012 07:08:14 AM 1101 Views
I think we aren't far off in interpretation darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 02:48:46 PM 955 Views
Re: I think we aren't far off in interpretation Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:41:12 PM 946 Views
We are close enough on this point darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 08:02:48 PM 1054 Views
Re: Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent. Onarishma - 07/10/2012 06:37:32 PM 990 Views
Please explain Androl then darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 09:48:54 PM 1010 Views
OMG. Androl DOES have a Talent. NO ONE is disputing that. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 10:50:41 PM 959 Views
You have waffled back and forth on Traveling being a Talent darius_sedai - 14/10/2012 03:01:03 AM 974 Views
there is no waffle here. plenty of syrup though.... Onarishma - 18/10/2012 06:53:34 PM 1022 Views
No it's not darius_sedai - 19/10/2012 04:25:25 AM 851 Views
fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 11:35:00 PM 832 Views
i will gladly find you the quote where it it is the right size and ONLY takes more power. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 11:18:15 PM 976 Views
I don't think so... Spirit is used in many weaves (like Healing) as part of the weave darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:38:29 AM 967 Views
I was incorrect about the size. but ultimately not incorrect about her evaluation quote within Onarishma - 18/10/2012 03:28:30 PM 1136 Views
How many different times does the text have to say Traveling is a Talent? darius_sedai - 05/10/2012 11:54:19 PM 931 Views
How do you know there's a difference? Sidious - 06/10/2012 06:53:33 AM 996 Views
darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 03:15:25 PM 980 Views
the text calls a lot of things Talents when they're just lost weaves...Traveling is one of them. *NM* Onarishma - 07/10/2012 07:03:35 PM 652 Views
Not really darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 09:57:56 PM 944 Views
I agree with this PoV Sidious - 06/10/2012 07:19:52 AM 1085 Views
Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability... darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 03:36:24 PM 916 Views
I think you use the word Talent too liberally Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:45:39 PM 1044 Views
I disagree darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 08:08:04 PM 974 Views
I sort of agree with Sidious there DomA - 09/10/2012 03:03:54 PM 947 Views
Flinn has difficulty with the weave. Unlike Aviendha he doesn't has a second weave problem darius_sedai - 09/10/2012 06:17:34 PM 917 Views
Re: Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability... Onarishma - 09/10/2012 02:37:10 PM 1108 Views
That has no relevance here darius_sedai - 09/10/2012 06:29:34 PM 876 Views
Beonin's Gateway v. Egwene's v. Rand's v. Aviendha and Elayne Edit: made a math mistake darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 08:34:56 PM 1361 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 03:49:05 AM 951 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 04:09:33 AM 921 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. DomA - 07/10/2012 07:46:51 PM 1065 Views
Cadsuane possessing a strong Talent for Traveling would not be surprising to me darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 10:15:17 PM 988 Views
I noticed that... fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 11:38:18 PM 1026 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:47:57 PM 922 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. DomA - 09/10/2012 05:08:34 PM 1158 Views
On Healing and Yellows... fionwe1987 - 09/10/2012 05:24:11 PM 981 Views
Re: On Healing and Yellows... DomA - 09/10/2012 06:07:20 PM 1095 Views
True darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 10:01:42 PM 968 Views
Life skills and OP skills... fionwe1987 - 02/10/2012 06:40:00 AM 863 Views
Or the reverse could be true darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 08:43:37 AM 1001 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true Sidious - 02/10/2012 09:12:28 AM 1094 Views
And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 04:55:30 PM 1026 Views
Re: And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time DomA - 03/10/2012 12:55:01 AM 1091 Views
The point is the same regardless darius_sedai - 03/10/2012 05:14:36 AM 1024 Views
Here's an answer to your original question Sidious - 06/10/2012 07:21:27 AM 1055 Views
*takes a bow* ... thanks for finding that quote! *NM* darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 08:41:49 PM 544 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true DomA - 02/10/2012 01:02:03 PM 1128 Views
You misunderstand the nature of the Yellow darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 05:06:20 PM 1047 Views
I know DomA - 02/10/2012 07:27:14 PM 1038 Views
Our stance seems to be Nature v. nurture in nature darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 11:21:50 PM 1011 Views
weaves are not magical entities that exist in channelers. They are tools that are invented. Onarishma - 05/10/2012 06:17:31 PM 1009 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... fionwe1987 - 02/10/2012 06:38:11 AM 972 Views
Trollocs have dreams Onarishma - 05/10/2012 06:39:49 PM 1036 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... DomA - 06/10/2012 02:05:30 PM 1017 Views
Was Avendoraldera a separate construct, and what to make of the Green Man cosmology? LoialT - 06/10/2012 06:54:27 PM 1017 Views
Re: Was Avendoraldera a separate construct, and what to make of the Green Man cosmology? DomA - 06/10/2012 10:04:41 PM 1201 Views
XKCD is on the case! Tor - 03/10/2012 06:05:54 AM 955 Views
Re: Problems with gateways Onarishma - 04/10/2012 03:10:48 PM 839 Views
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