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Gateway Talent I'd say Sidious Send a noteboard - 02/10/2012 08:55:26 AM
In Chapter 56 of TOM

He focused. Making gateways came so much easier to him than other weaves did; he'd never understood why. Though he couldn't break even a small rock apart by channeling, he could make a gateway large enough for a wagon to drive through.


I don't know why its controversial. As you showed he directly alludes to the fact that his gateways are much larger than they should be, and with minimal effort. He seems to have the same sort of disproportionate ability that Berowin had with shielding.

Gateways are obviously proportional to strength, but Talent is also there. There's also the fact that gateways are limited to 4x4 paces no matter how strong you are, and that Rand can make several of this size at the same time.
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Problems with gateways Narg - 28/09/2012 05:02:47 PM 3005 Views
Uh, yeah, well, whenever you notice something like that... a wizard did it. *NM* Tom - 28/09/2012 05:47:13 PM 713 Views
Yeah, I realize that raising physics questions about fantasy books can be absurd... Narg - 28/09/2012 06:03:05 PM 1210 Views
It's been discussed before... DomA - 28/09/2012 06:04:35 PM 1570 Views
I would agree with this A Deathwatch Guard - 28/09/2012 06:35:14 PM 1212 Views
Re: I would agree with this DomA - 28/09/2012 06:56:57 PM 1353 Views
Egwene would likely also know since she puzzled it out as well darius_sedai - 28/09/2012 07:28:22 PM 1342 Views
Especially when opening a gateway into a void like in Skimming (though that is probably T'A'R too) Onarishma - 04/10/2012 03:13:29 PM 1227 Views
Regarding shadowspawn: Narg - 28/09/2012 07:19:38 PM 1529 Views
Isn't there a quote somewhere about this? darius_sedai - 28/09/2012 07:30:40 PM 1338 Views
There is echooff - 28/09/2012 07:52:30 PM 1228 Views
Can Fain pass through a Gateway? Marshall - 28/09/2012 08:11:59 PM 1261 Views
Re: Can Fain pass through a Gateway? DomA - 02/10/2012 02:37:58 AM 1255 Views
Here's a neat idea Marshall - 28/09/2012 08:07:52 PM 1375 Views
Found an interesting quote when I was looking into something else darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 12:57:21 AM 1049 Views
I don't think RJ thought about it Sidious - 28/09/2012 07:44:34 PM 1256 Views
Absurd question... fionwe1987 - 28/09/2012 10:44:53 PM 1281 Views
Doesn't it meet your standards? Sidious - 29/09/2012 07:47:12 AM 1359 Views
Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... fionwe1987 - 28/09/2012 11:02:39 PM 1454 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... LoialT - 28/09/2012 11:12:54 PM 1279 Views
Wow, that makes a lot of sense. *NM* Dreadlord - 01/10/2012 07:30:22 PM 640 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... DomA - 01/10/2012 09:03:47 PM 1493 Views
Androl throws a kink in this darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 01:14:16 AM 1257 Views
Re: Androl throws a kink in this DomA - 02/10/2012 02:30:23 AM 1422 Views
He said he can make one large enough for a Wagon to pass through darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 03:23:26 AM 1162 Views
Gateway Talent I'd say Sidious - 02/10/2012 08:55:26 AM 1266 Views
I think Androl is proof that gateways are more about a the Talent than strength darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 09:00:26 AM 1289 Views
No I think they're more about strength Sidious - 02/10/2012 09:27:17 AM 1414 Views
I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 04:47:59 PM 1286 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this Sidious - 03/10/2012 07:04:11 AM 1267 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this fionwe1987 - 03/10/2012 07:43:12 AM 1289 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this Sidious - 03/10/2012 09:59:13 AM 1234 Views
Egwene could not heal Gawyn darius_sedai - 03/10/2012 02:34:08 PM 1331 Views
She did Heal him Sidious - 04/10/2012 08:30:14 AM 1194 Views
and *gasp* maybe breeding. Onarishma - 04/10/2012 05:36:59 PM 1202 Views
Re-read some stuff darius_sedai - 04/10/2012 07:57:50 PM 1289 Views
Re: Re-read some stuff Sidious - 05/10/2012 08:22:06 AM 1166 Views
Um she tries out of desperation? darius_sedai - 05/10/2012 03:06:59 PM 1262 Views
Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct darius_sedai - 03/10/2012 02:13:08 PM 1478 Views
But his thought processes are sound Sidious - 04/10/2012 08:20:13 AM 1180 Views
It's in Chapter 5 of TGS darius_sedai - 04/10/2012 09:48:49 PM 1258 Views
Re: It's in Chapter 5 of TGS Sidious - 05/10/2012 08:28:13 AM 1174 Views
Why was Flinn so late and why bring up his Gateway? darius_sedai - 05/10/2012 04:15:47 PM 1215 Views
Ummm... fionwe1987 - 05/10/2012 08:42:19 PM 1161 Views
Re: Ummm... Sidious - 06/10/2012 07:53:10 AM 1285 Views
I don't think RJ changed his mind darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 03:13:44 PM 1117 Views
Re: I don't think RJ changed his mind DomA - 07/10/2012 07:28:38 PM 1339 Views
I wasn't being very clear darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 09:45:15 PM 1256 Views
I think he did Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:32:35 PM 1260 Views
Maybe darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 07:48:24 PM 1167 Views
still don't think that's proof. It's just practical. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 07:06:15 PM 1168 Views
Interesting point you bring up about fighting for control darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 03:44:26 AM 1143 Views
She wouldn't have to guess! Onarishma - 09/10/2012 08:43:54 PM 1169 Views
Really? Where is that quote? All we've heard is a woman needs to be strong enough darius_sedai - 09/10/2012 11:44:15 PM 1141 Views
There is only one book left. It is definitely not LIKELY Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:06:04 PM 1171 Views
I can agree with most of that ... I simply believe that the Talent dictates the amount of strength darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 03:53:21 AM 1096 Views
Exactly... fionwe1987 - 10/10/2012 12:35:16 AM 1059 Views
Re: Exactly... Sidious - 10/10/2012 10:29:13 AM 1083 Views
Re: Exactly... fionwe1987 - 10/10/2012 10:06:08 PM 1197 Views
AND... darius_sedai - 10/10/2012 10:15:14 PM 1058 Views
Re: AND... Sidious - 11/10/2012 04:46:31 PM 1239 Views
Again THANK YOU! Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:35:10 PM 1032 Views
Re: AND... darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:09:25 AM 1161 Views
Re: AND... Sidious - 12/10/2012 08:57:46 AM 1216 Views
I only discount direct statements when we are explicitly shown that they are incorrect darius_sedai - 13/10/2012 06:55:38 PM 1159 Views
Because let's be honest, it's rarely a Talent and you both know it Sidious - 11/10/2012 04:44:27 PM 1246 Views
TY!!! Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:38:44 PM 1250 Views
You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:13:06 AM 1413 Views
Re: You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise Sidious - 12/10/2012 08:52:02 AM 1189 Views
Are you reading mine? darius_sedai - 13/10/2012 07:09:02 PM 1118 Views
Apoplexy, that is what is happening on my side of the screen Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:31:30 PM 980 Views
the fact that Egwene is proven incorrect on this any number of times? darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:14:35 AM 1220 Views
THANK YOU!!! Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:26:49 PM 1143 Views
Re: Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct Onarishma - 04/10/2012 09:51:08 PM 1194 Views
to the point on the Circle darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 09:36:18 PM 1219 Views
Circles don't add the Talents... fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 03:34:47 AM 1168 Views
I had forgotten about Brendas! darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 05:15:52 AM 1170 Views
I've been thinking about this darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 10:11:22 PM 1119 Views
Circles give added precision, remember? fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 11:27:05 PM 1151 Views
I get that, but the evidence in front of me from the text is inconsistent to the quote darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 12:11:15 AM 1021 Views
Circles of larger numbers give added benefit... fionwe1987 - 08/10/2012 02:00:58 AM 1204 Views
Egwene with a sa'angreal might be like 15x her natural strength, so maybe 9-10x Rand darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 02:59:26 AM 1120 Views
Highly doubtful... fionwe1987 - 08/10/2012 01:36:47 PM 1157 Views
Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text. darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 03:31:20 PM 1118 Views
Re: Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text. Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:57:04 PM 1155 Views
That is actually the crux of my issue darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 07:52:52 PM 1119 Views
That's why its called exponential. It is NOT linear and that why the gains look ridiculous Onarishma - 11/10/2012 10:00:15 PM 1175 Views
Yet that only explains when a circle does certain things darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:18:36 AM 1184 Views
the text is not inconsistent. Onarishma - 19/10/2012 08:20:52 PM 1627 Views
I see, it only counts when it supports your point! Why didn't I think of that! darius_sedai - 20/10/2012 03:58:27 AM 1269 Views
RJ specifically said that was ONLY because of Forsaken skill level Onarishma - 11/10/2012 09:02:03 PM 1171 Views
Not so much darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:28:44 AM 1170 Views
I'm still arguing about this but I think the evidence is that AS holding a shield are not linked. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:59:20 PM 1209 Views
I've given this point some thought too ... It's a dicey subject darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:22:23 AM 1072 Views
THAT is proof of the power of LINKING. This is why thirteen Morgases could smash Rand. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:41:45 PM 1039 Views
It's one example that supports the exponential increase ... not arguing that darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:40:08 AM 1143 Views
Re: to the point on the Circle Onarishma - 07/10/2012 06:09:48 PM 1139 Views
Healing is a thing of the physical body darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 09:50:37 PM 1174 Views
Suian was stilled for hiding these boys. obviously trust was the issue. not healing skill. *NM* Onarishma - 11/10/2012 10:11:50 PM 511 Views
Didn't I just say that? darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:31:22 AM 1097 Views
That's what makes a Talent a Talent.... Onarishma - 04/10/2012 05:02:36 PM 1186 Views
There is so much evidence against this darius_sedai - 04/10/2012 08:04:45 PM 1255 Views
Androl does not match Rands Gateway size. Onarishma - 05/10/2012 05:59:34 PM 1272 Views
Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent. fionwe1987 - 05/10/2012 08:51:58 PM 1107 Views
+500 ... Well said sir! *NM* darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 04:52:38 AM 821 Views
He's referring to skimming Sidious - 06/10/2012 07:08:14 AM 1297 Views
I think we aren't far off in interpretation darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 02:48:46 PM 1154 Views
Re: I think we aren't far off in interpretation Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:41:12 PM 1141 Views
We are close enough on this point darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 08:02:48 PM 1279 Views
Re: Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent. Onarishma - 07/10/2012 06:37:32 PM 1185 Views
Please explain Androl then darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 09:48:54 PM 1195 Views
OMG. Androl DOES have a Talent. NO ONE is disputing that. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 10:50:41 PM 1160 Views
You have waffled back and forth on Traveling being a Talent darius_sedai - 14/10/2012 03:01:03 AM 1199 Views
there is no waffle here. plenty of syrup though.... Onarishma - 18/10/2012 06:53:34 PM 1234 Views
No it's not darius_sedai - 19/10/2012 04:25:25 AM 1052 Views
fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 11:35:00 PM 1008 Views
i will gladly find you the quote where it it is the right size and ONLY takes more power. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 11:18:15 PM 1193 Views
I don't think so... Spirit is used in many weaves (like Healing) as part of the weave darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:38:29 AM 1160 Views
I was incorrect about the size. but ultimately not incorrect about her evaluation quote within Onarishma - 18/10/2012 03:28:30 PM 1333 Views
How many different times does the text have to say Traveling is a Talent? darius_sedai - 05/10/2012 11:54:19 PM 1110 Views
How do you know there's a difference? Sidious - 06/10/2012 06:53:33 AM 1181 Views
darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 03:15:25 PM 1157 Views
the text calls a lot of things Talents when they're just lost weaves...Traveling is one of them. *NM* Onarishma - 07/10/2012 07:03:35 PM 736 Views
Not really darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 09:57:56 PM 1135 Views
I agree with this PoV Sidious - 06/10/2012 07:19:52 AM 1314 Views
Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability... darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 03:36:24 PM 1127 Views
I think you use the word Talent too liberally Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:45:39 PM 1248 Views
I disagree darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 08:08:04 PM 1146 Views
I sort of agree with Sidious there DomA - 09/10/2012 03:03:54 PM 1147 Views
Flinn has difficulty with the weave. Unlike Aviendha he doesn't has a second weave problem darius_sedai - 09/10/2012 06:17:34 PM 1108 Views
Re: Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability... Onarishma - 09/10/2012 02:37:10 PM 1322 Views
That has no relevance here darius_sedai - 09/10/2012 06:29:34 PM 1067 Views
Beonin's Gateway v. Egwene's v. Rand's v. Aviendha and Elayne Edit: made a math mistake darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 08:34:56 PM 1601 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 03:49:05 AM 1136 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 04:09:33 AM 1106 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. DomA - 07/10/2012 07:46:51 PM 1260 Views
Cadsuane possessing a strong Talent for Traveling would not be surprising to me darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 10:15:17 PM 1194 Views
I noticed that... fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 11:38:18 PM 1264 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:47:57 PM 1125 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. DomA - 09/10/2012 05:08:34 PM 1391 Views
On Healing and Yellows... fionwe1987 - 09/10/2012 05:24:11 PM 1171 Views
Re: On Healing and Yellows... DomA - 09/10/2012 06:07:20 PM 1290 Views
True darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 10:01:42 PM 1178 Views
Life skills and OP skills... fionwe1987 - 02/10/2012 06:40:00 AM 1077 Views
Or the reverse could be true darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 08:43:37 AM 1231 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true Sidious - 02/10/2012 09:12:28 AM 1267 Views
And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 04:55:30 PM 1193 Views
Re: And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time DomA - 03/10/2012 12:55:01 AM 1319 Views
The point is the same regardless darius_sedai - 03/10/2012 05:14:36 AM 1214 Views
Here's an answer to your original question Sidious - 06/10/2012 07:21:27 AM 1271 Views
*takes a bow* ... thanks for finding that quote! *NM* darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 08:41:49 PM 622 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true DomA - 02/10/2012 01:02:03 PM 1325 Views
You misunderstand the nature of the Yellow darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 05:06:20 PM 1231 Views
I know DomA - 02/10/2012 07:27:14 PM 1260 Views
Our stance seems to be Nature v. nurture in nature darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 11:21:50 PM 1215 Views
weaves are not magical entities that exist in channelers. They are tools that are invented. Onarishma - 05/10/2012 06:17:31 PM 1203 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... fionwe1987 - 02/10/2012 06:38:11 AM 1213 Views
Trollocs have dreams Onarishma - 05/10/2012 06:39:49 PM 1277 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... DomA - 06/10/2012 02:05:30 PM 1247 Views
Was Avendoraldera a separate construct, and what to make of the Green Man cosmology? LoialT - 06/10/2012 06:54:27 PM 1258 Views
Re: Was Avendoraldera a separate construct, and what to make of the Green Man cosmology? DomA - 06/10/2012 10:04:41 PM 1411 Views
XKCD is on the case! Tor - 03/10/2012 06:05:54 AM 1159 Views
Re: Problems with gateways Onarishma - 04/10/2012 03:10:48 PM 1046 Views
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