Wheel of Time Messageboard: I found this utterly refreshing. A Forsaken who isn't 100% villain, and LTT who wasn't 100% the hero by Shannow

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I found this utterly refreshing. A Forsaken who isn't 100% villain, and LTT who wasn't 100% the hero Shannow Send a noteboard - 26/09/2012 06:50:40 PM

Lews Therin tells us a few things about Demandred...

"I thought it would be in the south where they struck... I'm half-certain Demandred is involved. He has never been comfortable without an army. But Caemlyn.... yes, it's a clever strike. I told you they would try to distract us."

"Its exactly the sort of thing he'd try. Separate your foes, then crush them one at a time."

"It was one of the oldest strategies in warfare. Demandred himself had discovered it in the old writings. They'd known nothing of war when the Bore had first opened."

"Of all those to turn to the Shadow, Demandred's betrayal seemed the most tragic. The man could have been a hero. Should have been a hero. I'm to blame for that, too, Rand thought. If I'd offered a hand instead of a smirk, if I'd congratulated instead of competed. If I'd been the man I am now..."

It's interesting to see how much Demandred has the ability to vex Lews Therin and how he's going to come to the forefront as a Forsaken in this book. They are similar in many ways. I wonder if Rand will end up apologizing to Demandred for treating him unfairly at some stage? That is certainly a possibility, especially with the new Rand. Either way, it's going to be interesting to see how Mat challenges Demandred's tactical abilities.

I found the paragraph about Demandred to be the best piece of writing I've seen from Sanderson.

"Ïf I had offered a hand instead of a smirk, if I had congratulated instead of competed. If I had been the man I am now."

For the first time, a Forsaken is not simply portrayed as a two dimensional card board cutout of a stereotypical bad guy.

"Ooh, they're all Nazi war criminals in fantasy dress, they're all failed personalities, wrapped in their own banal narcicism with no depth whatsoever."

The "banality of evil", as some like to constantly refer to their dumbass exploits and petty vendettas.

For the first time, we see Demandred portrayed as a potential hero, and that Lews Therin's own faults were at least partly to blame for driving him to the Shadow.

Maybe Demandred has more foundation for his grudge than the one sided views have led us to believe up to now. Wouldn't that be wonderfully novel and refreshing? A bit of Martinesque "grey character" building, with Demandred not quite as automatically bad as we were led to believe, and Lews Therin not as intrinsically good and holy as we thought.

Seems like Lews Therin's own pride competed quite vigourously with that of Demandred. Neither was an angel, it would seem.

Anyway, I found that reference by Rand to be poignant and meaningful.

It made me look forward to the Demandred that will be revealed in the rest of the book. The anticipation to this revelation of Demandred and Lews Therin's interpersonal dynamics actually seems far more appetizing than the reveal of Demandred's plans and whereabouts, whether it turns out to be Murandy or Shara or the Isle of Madmen or none of the above.

Demandred is showing a hint of three dimensionality - the first time that we see this for any of the Chosen. And maybe, just maybe, we have Sanderson to thank for that.

This message last edited by Shannow on 26/09/2012 at 07:03:27 PM

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AMOL chapter 1: Demandred Sidious - 26/09/2012 05:56:20 PM 1784 Views

I found this utterly refreshing. A Forsaken who isn't 100% villain, and LTT who wasn't 100% the hero Shannow - 26/09/2012 06:50:40 PM 1207 Views

But... DomA - 26/09/2012 07:57:20 PM 1073 Views

I think you are getting your hopes up unjustifiably. Narg - 26/09/2012 07:59:37 PM 870 Views

Getting my hopes up that RJ improved his portrayal of villains, yes. Shannow - 26/09/2012 09:20:50 PM 1068 Views

That's just ridiculous... fionwe1987 - 27/09/2012 02:09:42 AM 772 Views

Quit being such a Forsaken FanBoy

darius_sedai - 27/09/2012 12:55:41 AM 766 Views

I agree, I would love to see Demandred throw a coup and become ultra-badass Naeblis Praziquantel - 27/09/2012 04:03:02 AM 694 Views

I think you're going to be disappointed Sidious - 27/09/2012 07:17:30 AM 1095 Views

Undoubtedly I will be... Shannow - 27/09/2012 07:59:46 AM 909 Views

Re: Undoubtedly I will be... Sidious - 27/09/2012 09:16:29 AM 981 Views

The duel with Lanfear killed hundreds of innocent bystanders? Narg - 27/09/2012 03:40:14 PM 833 Views

Re: The duel with Lanfear killed hundreds of innocent bystanders? Sidious - 27/09/2012 03:45:22 PM 844 Views

Re: AMOL chapter 1: Demandred dadof5 - 26/09/2012 09:35:29 PM 964 Views

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<quote id="262247">Lews Therin tells us a few things about Demandred...</quote>

<quote id="262247"><i>"I thought it would be in the south where they struck... I'm half-certain Demandred is involved. He has never been comfortable without an army. But Caemlyn.... yes, it's a clever strike. I told you they would try to distract us."</quote>

<quote id="262247">"Its exactly the sort of thing he'd try. Separate your foes, then crush them one at a time."</quote>

<quote id="262247">"It was one of the oldest strategies in warfare. Demandred himself had discovered it in the old writings. They'd known nothing of war when the Bore had first opened."</quote>

<quote id="262247">"Of all those to turn to the Shadow, Demandred's betrayal seemed the most tragic. The man could have been a hero. Should have been a hero. I'm to blame for that, too, Rand thought. If I'd offered a hand instead of a smirk, if I'd congratulated instead of competed. If I'd been the man I am now..."</i></quote>

<quote id="262247">It's interesting to see how much Demandred has the ability to vex Lews Therin and how he's going to come to the forefront as a Forsaken in this book. They are similar in many ways. I wonder if Rand will end up apologizing to Demandred for treating him unfairly at some stage? That is certainly a possibility, especially with the new Rand. Either way, it's going to be interesting to see how Mat challenges Demandred's tactical abilities.</quote>

<quote id="262247">I found the paragraph about Demandred to be the best piece of writing I've seen from Sanderson. </quote>

<quote id="262247">"Ïf I had offered a hand instead of a smirk, if I had congratulated instead of competed. If I had been the man I am now."</quote>

<quote id="262247">For the first time, a Forsaken is not simply portrayed as a two dimensional card board cutout of a stereotypical bad guy.</quote>

<quote id="262247">"Ooh, they're all Nazi war criminals in fantasy dress, they're all failed personalities, wrapped in their own banal narcicism with no depth whatsoever."</quote>

<quote id="262247">The "banality of evil", as some like to constantly refer to their dumbass exploits and petty vendettas.</quote>

<quote id="262247">For the first time, we see Demandred portrayed as a potential hero, and that Lews Therin's own faults were at least partly to blame for driving him to the Shadow.</quote>

<quote id="262247">Maybe Demandred has more foundation for his grudge than the one sided views have led us to believe up to now. Wouldn't that be wonderfully novel and refreshing? A bit of Martinesque "grey character" building, with Demandred not quite as automatically bad as we were led to believe, and Lews Therin not as intrinsically good and holy as we thought.</quote>

<quote id="262247">Seems like Lews Therin's own pride competed quite vigourously with that of Demandred. Neither was an angel, it would seem.</quote>

<quote id="262247">Anyway, I found that reference by Rand to be poignant and meaningful.</quote>

<quote id="262247">It made me look forward to the Demandred that will be revealed in the rest of the book. The anticipation to this revelation of Demandred and Lews Therin's interpersonal dynamics actually seems far more appetizing than the reveal of Demandred's plans and whereabouts, whether it turns out to be Murandy or Shara or the Isle of Madmen or none of the above.</quote>

<quote id="262247">Demandred is showing a hint of three dimensionality - the first time that we see this for any of the Chosen. And maybe, just maybe, we have Sanderson to thank for that.</quote>

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