Cannoli’s journal of listening to “The Nature of Pain.”
Cannoli Send a noteboard - 28/09/2009 01:03:35 PM
Cannoli’s journal of listening to “The Nature of Pain.” An extraordinarily apt title for a chapter being read verrrrry slllllllowly by a woman whose underpants are apparently too tight.
03:05 – Egwene is condescendingly approving of Silviana doing her duty, because so few do these days. And Egwene’s priority is protecting 294 or so of those malingerers. Without the benefit of hindsight of everything that has happened since the beginning of the rebellion, how can fleeing to Salidar in a fit of pique over what their leaders admit was a legal change of authority be considered “doing their duty”? The most duty-conscious sisters would be the ones who kept to their tasks and missions or stayed in the Tower (like Seaine, for instance, who had the most personal reason to flee – it was HER idea that was repudiated by the coup, after all). NOW sisters and false Amyrlins are all full of pious sentiment about being willing to put their lives on the line for the Tower, but where was the courage and selflessness when they fled the Tower in fear of their lives, or for lesser causes? In the American Civil War, the secession of the southern states in rejection of the first Republican President, was the best thing that could happen to the Republicans! They had a Republican President, and now with the South gone, they had control over Congress! Their staunchest regional opposition had left. There was no one to block the laws the Republicans and their predecessors had been trying to pass unsuccessfully for years. The same has happened with the Tower. All the “abuses” Elaida has carried out happened because the Blues deserted their posts! Imagine if the first time they lost a battle to the Shadow, the Borderlanders quit the war, and departed for the south? Egwene & her followers are all appalled at the factionalism in the Tower and the failure to maintain Tar Valon? They why did they leave the city to be neglected? Why did they not stay and try to keep peace between the Ajahs?
03:50 - The “proper order” shot was a low blow. Is an Amyrlin deserting her duties to go on a boat ride “proper order”? What kind of order would have existed in the rebel camp if they had not been relying on one of the recruits to keep things flowing smoothly?
05:17 Meanwhile, Silviana does the basic practical thing, and Egwene assesses her as “stern yet fair.” Exactly WHAT has she said or done to indicate EITHER quality? She has not been all that stern, unless proper maintenance of authority and decorum between superior and vastly inferior is what passes for “stern” these days. And what does she do that is so fair? Her orders regarding Egwene eating enough to do what she has to, when Silviana has explicit orders to not break her, is merely doing what is necessary. “Fair” does not come into it. And so much for Egwene being the great unifier! It is one thing when Siuan is prejudiced against the Red Ajah, and so ready to see them as the enemy that she overlooks instances where their agenda and hers overlap, but she has the excuse of indoctrination in the practices of the Tower and her Ajah’s feuds and prejudices. Egwene is prejudiced with no cause! She favors the Green and thinks that it is a “pity” a sister she has a good opinion of “found her way to the Red.” And yet people are going to cite her lack of an Ajah as a point in her favor as a candidate for Amyrlin. True she brings no factional baggage – but Egwene being Egwene, she makes her own baggage! What has the Red Ajah done to offend her so anyway? Protect the world from another Breaking? Recall back in Lord of Chaos, when discussing Galina’s theoretical Ajah, Rand, a man who can channel and a natural enemy of the Red Ajah is open to the idea of working with them and accepts the possibility that the Reds could see reason. Egwene, Ms Neutrality herself, so praised for her refusal to reciprocate against the Reds Elaida’s disbandment of the Blues, arrogating to herself authority over an Ajah that does not want her (and her entire claim rests on the validity of the principle that an Amyrlin cannot impose herself on sisters who do not recognize her as such), even back then sneers at the idea that a Red could be friendly or sympathetic to Rand.
07:05 - And Egwene keeps on scoring points, not because of her brilliant moves, but because she’s up against clueless idiots. Katerine “has no choice” but to take back the cup? Why are they even affording her the courtesy of drinking it herself? She should be getting dosed via funnel to impose on her the helplessness of her situation! If she hands the cup back, she should be punished for not asking a sister to take it back and made to hold it. And a weave to make it freezing cold should be placed on it. If she doesn’t give back the cup, she gets punished on suspicious of attempted theft! And why is she allowed to linger? She should be dragged to Elaida’s study by the scruff of her neck to teach her that it is NOT up to her where or when she goes! Is THIS what the Black Ajah have come to? Katerine doesn’t even know the very basics of breaking people! Even I can see this, and I’m not any kind of pro. You have to adapt to your subject. If the subject makes a point of pride of doing things himself, you strip them of the dignity. If he is embracing his helplessness to maintain the mindset that he is not cooperating, but is being forced, you make him participate in his own coerced actions. And how long is it going to take them to try something other than punishments fit only for children who lack a proper perspective? Why aren’t they making her do degrading, arduous and useless labor, or exiling her to a farm somewhere? Once again, Egwene is bowling in the bumper lane and is pleased with herself for not rolling a gutter ball!
08:28 - A “conspicuous” amount of red, worn by Katerine is…a red dress slashed with black, and dark hair. Wow. Egwene really doesn’t like seeing red. And “what more could they do to her?” Well, if she was in the hands of halfway intelligent people … she seems to forget that she’s living under a suspended death sentence. Other characters manage defiance or serenity in the face of obvious danger. Egwene does so because she cannot imagine the obvious danger! And what is the deal with Katerine and the black? Is she flaunting her true Ajah?
09:55 - Were the rebels the ones to formally declare war? Were the rebels the ones to single out the Reds for public humiliation? Egwene thinks she’s getting the last word merely because her adversaries cannot be bothered to give the obvious responses.
10:45 - And after her followers spread lies singling out the Reds, Egwene wonders why they don’t ditch Elaida as an embarrassment to the Ajah – does Egwene not comprehend how these hostile actions might have contributed to a bunker mentality.
13:00 - And she’s still going on about the garbage in the street! How does she feel about one of the “great cities” having its lifeblood choked off by her plotting?
14:00 - Well Egwene DOES realize the obvious about her prospects for execution. That’s something of a relief.
14:46 - The Dark One’s an art critic! These bubbles of evil are getting more and more impressive.
15:25 - Egwene doesn’t have time to worry about the Dark One coming! She has a Tower to perfect! Maybe considering the Dark One’s effects on the Pattern might give her some perspective on her course of action and its slow pace.
18:10 - Egwene just realized something is more important than her pride! Whatever else Elaida has done, she has taught Egwene some perspective! She deserves a pardon for all offenses for that achievement alone!
20:36 - Now Egwene is engaging in mental hagiography over Siuan’s perfect decorating style. The woman WAS incompetent, and not too far removed from Elaida in her views on Rand. Someone’s own private quarters should be functional and not distracting? What is her problem? Obviously, Egwene is nit-picking over nonsense to reassure herself of her “rival’s” wrongdoing. Had Elaida’s rooms been as plain and simple as the Winespring Inn, she would be at fault for failing to uphold the dignity and majesty of the Amyrlin Seat.
22:21 - Oooh. So much for her resolution to let Elaida win. Egwene can’t be in the room five seconds without getting in trouble.
22:55 - HAH! Egwene & Elaida have identical perspectives on the sisters’ performance of their duties and how Silviana measures up. This is the true measure of Elaida’s iniquity – she thinks just like Egwene!
25:00 - Elaida’s pretty good at the torture stuff… it’s the same old deal with incompetent minions again. She has to leave Egwene to losers like Katerine.
25:45 - And Elaida is bad for keeping an uncovered spy close? Like all of Egwene’s friends do? And she should be nice to a woman who is not only spying for rebels who have falsely accused Elaida of monstrous crimes, but is attempting to take personal advantage of a friendship with Elaida.
26:30 - This is actually pretty interesting. I think serving food is the most useful Egwene has been in any function over the course of the series.
29:05 - Oh, power changes people. It couldn’t POSSIBLY be that Egwene had been WRONG about Elaida on her first analysis. And she never considers the fact that “power changes people” might apply to herself, of course.
‘It appeared that holding the Amyrlin Seat had taken Egwene’s thirst for power and recognition and turned them into a messiah complex and made her furiously incapable of witnessing someone holding a different opinion.’
30:30 - And Elaida is bad because she does not listen to Egwene’s dream warning, which incidentally would boost Egwene’s credibility and thus hurt Elaida’s? How much credence did Egwene and her people give to Nicola’s Foretellings? For the most part they laughed them off as exaggerations and unbelievable!
32:45 - And NOW Egwene is mad about Elaida’s proposed Oath. First, she equates a change in the Oaths with eliminating them altogether. Egwene is now on record as claiming that the SPECIFIC Three Oaths are sacrosanct and perfect, as if they have been handed down from the Creator! Adding to or altering the Oath does not undo the principle behind them. According to Egwene, the Tower may not change what it has done! Because Aes Sedai once used certain Oaths, all Aes Sedai forever must use them and only them, no matter how unsuited or wrong they might turn out to be. And if there is one woman in the history of the universe who should not dare think that an oath of obedience to the Amyrlin is wrong, it is Egwene, who has forced oaths of fealty on sisters through blackmail. And blackmail offenses that include helping one of Egwene’s friends survive the loss of his warder bond. And a girl who threatened Sitters in the Hall with being birched for sarcasm is judging Elaida? This is why the US Constitution protects congressmen from legal penalties for words spoken on the floor of Congress.
34:10 - So Egwene’s solution to hearing things she does not like is to dump out increasingly rare food? What about self-control? An alien concept to Egwene, apparently.
37:00 - And Egwene cites the right of the Amyrlin to demand obedience from Meidani! And she is mad at Elaida for expecting the same thing! We know that Elaida is being disobeyed on the issue of the cleaning of Tar Valon, so does that not logically suggest Elaida is right?
37:40 - Crap. I KNEW IT! Egwene is going to get credit for the Black Ajah hunters! THEY were the ones who set Meidani on Elaida, and Egwene has unwittingly associated herself with them by saying she appreciates what Meidani is doing with Elaida! Now Meidani is going to think the hunters are working for Egwene, and this will spread to her credit, of course.
38:55 - “Forced to drop the soup”? Even recognizing her own faults, she is still dodging full blame. “She’d underestimated how infuriating Elaida could be…” so it’s all Elaida’s fault in her head. Of course.
41:12 - “Ends of the loaf”!! Truly Egwene is a marvel for enduring such sufferings! And to think we felt pity for Rand’s meager sufferings.
42:25 - Finally! Egwene has realized the reality of her duty. I commented on this a while back, and once again, a character realizes I’m right a book later. She finally sees that tearing down the Tower from within because it does not serve her is hypocritical.
42:55 - Annnnd the arrogance is back. Rand MUST be screwing up without her guiding him! When did she EVER guide him, after he proclaimed himself? EVERYTHING he has accomplished has been without her help, but he is surely running amok without her input.
45:00 - And Egwene laughs at the idiocy of her beatings, but she is the one who in CoT, refused the idea of surrendering to Elaida because Elaida was going to spank Egwene’s precious “daughters” and make them pretend to join other Ajahs?
All in all, aside from her revelation that her supposed tour de force in the last book was wrong-minded and that she has had the wrong attitude so far, this chapter has not been all that new for Egwene. It’s more of the same triviality of KoD, blown up in her mind to the crucial struggle on which the world rests, with more hypocrisy that her fans have no doubt plastered all over RAFO.com as evidence of her sanctity.
03:05 – Egwene is condescendingly approving of Silviana doing her duty, because so few do these days. And Egwene’s priority is protecting 294 or so of those malingerers. Without the benefit of hindsight of everything that has happened since the beginning of the rebellion, how can fleeing to Salidar in a fit of pique over what their leaders admit was a legal change of authority be considered “doing their duty”? The most duty-conscious sisters would be the ones who kept to their tasks and missions or stayed in the Tower (like Seaine, for instance, who had the most personal reason to flee – it was HER idea that was repudiated by the coup, after all). NOW sisters and false Amyrlins are all full of pious sentiment about being willing to put their lives on the line for the Tower, but where was the courage and selflessness when they fled the Tower in fear of their lives, or for lesser causes? In the American Civil War, the secession of the southern states in rejection of the first Republican President, was the best thing that could happen to the Republicans! They had a Republican President, and now with the South gone, they had control over Congress! Their staunchest regional opposition had left. There was no one to block the laws the Republicans and their predecessors had been trying to pass unsuccessfully for years. The same has happened with the Tower. All the “abuses” Elaida has carried out happened because the Blues deserted their posts! Imagine if the first time they lost a battle to the Shadow, the Borderlanders quit the war, and departed for the south? Egwene & her followers are all appalled at the factionalism in the Tower and the failure to maintain Tar Valon? They why did they leave the city to be neglected? Why did they not stay and try to keep peace between the Ajahs?
03:50 - The “proper order” shot was a low blow. Is an Amyrlin deserting her duties to go on a boat ride “proper order”? What kind of order would have existed in the rebel camp if they had not been relying on one of the recruits to keep things flowing smoothly?
05:17 Meanwhile, Silviana does the basic practical thing, and Egwene assesses her as “stern yet fair.” Exactly WHAT has she said or done to indicate EITHER quality? She has not been all that stern, unless proper maintenance of authority and decorum between superior and vastly inferior is what passes for “stern” these days. And what does she do that is so fair? Her orders regarding Egwene eating enough to do what she has to, when Silviana has explicit orders to not break her, is merely doing what is necessary. “Fair” does not come into it. And so much for Egwene being the great unifier! It is one thing when Siuan is prejudiced against the Red Ajah, and so ready to see them as the enemy that she overlooks instances where their agenda and hers overlap, but she has the excuse of indoctrination in the practices of the Tower and her Ajah’s feuds and prejudices. Egwene is prejudiced with no cause! She favors the Green and thinks that it is a “pity” a sister she has a good opinion of “found her way to the Red.” And yet people are going to cite her lack of an Ajah as a point in her favor as a candidate for Amyrlin. True she brings no factional baggage – but Egwene being Egwene, she makes her own baggage! What has the Red Ajah done to offend her so anyway? Protect the world from another Breaking? Recall back in Lord of Chaos, when discussing Galina’s theoretical Ajah, Rand, a man who can channel and a natural enemy of the Red Ajah is open to the idea of working with them and accepts the possibility that the Reds could see reason. Egwene, Ms Neutrality herself, so praised for her refusal to reciprocate against the Reds Elaida’s disbandment of the Blues, arrogating to herself authority over an Ajah that does not want her (and her entire claim rests on the validity of the principle that an Amyrlin cannot impose herself on sisters who do not recognize her as such), even back then sneers at the idea that a Red could be friendly or sympathetic to Rand.
07:05 - And Egwene keeps on scoring points, not because of her brilliant moves, but because she’s up against clueless idiots. Katerine “has no choice” but to take back the cup? Why are they even affording her the courtesy of drinking it herself? She should be getting dosed via funnel to impose on her the helplessness of her situation! If she hands the cup back, she should be punished for not asking a sister to take it back and made to hold it. And a weave to make it freezing cold should be placed on it. If she doesn’t give back the cup, she gets punished on suspicious of attempted theft! And why is she allowed to linger? She should be dragged to Elaida’s study by the scruff of her neck to teach her that it is NOT up to her where or when she goes! Is THIS what the Black Ajah have come to? Katerine doesn’t even know the very basics of breaking people! Even I can see this, and I’m not any kind of pro. You have to adapt to your subject. If the subject makes a point of pride of doing things himself, you strip them of the dignity. If he is embracing his helplessness to maintain the mindset that he is not cooperating, but is being forced, you make him participate in his own coerced actions. And how long is it going to take them to try something other than punishments fit only for children who lack a proper perspective? Why aren’t they making her do degrading, arduous and useless labor, or exiling her to a farm somewhere? Once again, Egwene is bowling in the bumper lane and is pleased with herself for not rolling a gutter ball!
08:28 - A “conspicuous” amount of red, worn by Katerine is…a red dress slashed with black, and dark hair. Wow. Egwene really doesn’t like seeing red. And “what more could they do to her?” Well, if she was in the hands of halfway intelligent people … she seems to forget that she’s living under a suspended death sentence. Other characters manage defiance or serenity in the face of obvious danger. Egwene does so because she cannot imagine the obvious danger! And what is the deal with Katerine and the black? Is she flaunting her true Ajah?
09:55 - Were the rebels the ones to formally declare war? Were the rebels the ones to single out the Reds for public humiliation? Egwene thinks she’s getting the last word merely because her adversaries cannot be bothered to give the obvious responses.
10:45 - And after her followers spread lies singling out the Reds, Egwene wonders why they don’t ditch Elaida as an embarrassment to the Ajah – does Egwene not comprehend how these hostile actions might have contributed to a bunker mentality.
13:00 - And she’s still going on about the garbage in the street! How does she feel about one of the “great cities” having its lifeblood choked off by her plotting?
14:00 - Well Egwene DOES realize the obvious about her prospects for execution. That’s something of a relief.
14:46 - The Dark One’s an art critic! These bubbles of evil are getting more and more impressive.
15:25 - Egwene doesn’t have time to worry about the Dark One coming! She has a Tower to perfect! Maybe considering the Dark One’s effects on the Pattern might give her some perspective on her course of action and its slow pace.
18:10 - Egwene just realized something is more important than her pride! Whatever else Elaida has done, she has taught Egwene some perspective! She deserves a pardon for all offenses for that achievement alone!
20:36 - Now Egwene is engaging in mental hagiography over Siuan’s perfect decorating style. The woman WAS incompetent, and not too far removed from Elaida in her views on Rand. Someone’s own private quarters should be functional and not distracting? What is her problem? Obviously, Egwene is nit-picking over nonsense to reassure herself of her “rival’s” wrongdoing. Had Elaida’s rooms been as plain and simple as the Winespring Inn, she would be at fault for failing to uphold the dignity and majesty of the Amyrlin Seat.
22:21 - Oooh. So much for her resolution to let Elaida win. Egwene can’t be in the room five seconds without getting in trouble.
22:55 - HAH! Egwene & Elaida have identical perspectives on the sisters’ performance of their duties and how Silviana measures up. This is the true measure of Elaida’s iniquity – she thinks just like Egwene!
25:00 - Elaida’s pretty good at the torture stuff… it’s the same old deal with incompetent minions again. She has to leave Egwene to losers like Katerine.
25:45 - And Elaida is bad for keeping an uncovered spy close? Like all of Egwene’s friends do? And she should be nice to a woman who is not only spying for rebels who have falsely accused Elaida of monstrous crimes, but is attempting to take personal advantage of a friendship with Elaida.
26:30 - This is actually pretty interesting. I think serving food is the most useful Egwene has been in any function over the course of the series.
29:05 - Oh, power changes people. It couldn’t POSSIBLY be that Egwene had been WRONG about Elaida on her first analysis. And she never considers the fact that “power changes people” might apply to herself, of course.
‘It appeared that holding the Amyrlin Seat had taken Egwene’s thirst for power and recognition and turned them into a messiah complex and made her furiously incapable of witnessing someone holding a different opinion.’
30:30 - And Elaida is bad because she does not listen to Egwene’s dream warning, which incidentally would boost Egwene’s credibility and thus hurt Elaida’s? How much credence did Egwene and her people give to Nicola’s Foretellings? For the most part they laughed them off as exaggerations and unbelievable!
32:45 - And NOW Egwene is mad about Elaida’s proposed Oath. First, she equates a change in the Oaths with eliminating them altogether. Egwene is now on record as claiming that the SPECIFIC Three Oaths are sacrosanct and perfect, as if they have been handed down from the Creator! Adding to or altering the Oath does not undo the principle behind them. According to Egwene, the Tower may not change what it has done! Because Aes Sedai once used certain Oaths, all Aes Sedai forever must use them and only them, no matter how unsuited or wrong they might turn out to be. And if there is one woman in the history of the universe who should not dare think that an oath of obedience to the Amyrlin is wrong, it is Egwene, who has forced oaths of fealty on sisters through blackmail. And blackmail offenses that include helping one of Egwene’s friends survive the loss of his warder bond. And a girl who threatened Sitters in the Hall with being birched for sarcasm is judging Elaida? This is why the US Constitution protects congressmen from legal penalties for words spoken on the floor of Congress.
34:10 - So Egwene’s solution to hearing things she does not like is to dump out increasingly rare food? What about self-control? An alien concept to Egwene, apparently.
37:00 - And Egwene cites the right of the Amyrlin to demand obedience from Meidani! And she is mad at Elaida for expecting the same thing! We know that Elaida is being disobeyed on the issue of the cleaning of Tar Valon, so does that not logically suggest Elaida is right?
37:40 - Crap. I KNEW IT! Egwene is going to get credit for the Black Ajah hunters! THEY were the ones who set Meidani on Elaida, and Egwene has unwittingly associated herself with them by saying she appreciates what Meidani is doing with Elaida! Now Meidani is going to think the hunters are working for Egwene, and this will spread to her credit, of course.
38:55 - “Forced to drop the soup”? Even recognizing her own faults, she is still dodging full blame. “She’d underestimated how infuriating Elaida could be…” so it’s all Elaida’s fault in her head. Of course.
41:12 - “Ends of the loaf”!! Truly Egwene is a marvel for enduring such sufferings! And to think we felt pity for Rand’s meager sufferings.
42:25 - Finally! Egwene has realized the reality of her duty. I commented on this a while back, and once again, a character realizes I’m right a book later. She finally sees that tearing down the Tower from within because it does not serve her is hypocritical.
42:55 - Annnnd the arrogance is back. Rand MUST be screwing up without her guiding him! When did she EVER guide him, after he proclaimed himself? EVERYTHING he has accomplished has been without her help, but he is surely running amok without her input.
45:00 - And Egwene laughs at the idiocy of her beatings, but she is the one who in CoT, refused the idea of surrendering to Elaida because Elaida was going to spank Egwene’s precious “daughters” and make them pretend to join other Ajahs?
All in all, aside from her revelation that her supposed tour de force in the last book was wrong-minded and that she has had the wrong attitude so far, this chapter has not been all that new for Egwene. It’s more of the same triviality of KoD, blown up in her mind to the crucial struggle on which the world rests, with more hypocrisy that her fans have no doubt plastered all over RAFO.com as evidence of her sanctity.
Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
Your thoughts about TGS - chapter 2 *spoilers*
24/09/2009 03:17:07 PM
- 7233 Views
Mind-numbingly boring...
24/09/2009 04:22:52 PM
- 1970 Views
Agreed, but only because of the incredibly slow audio reading. FORTY-FIVE minutes for ONE chapter!!! *NM*
25/09/2009 06:08:27 AM
- 1036 Views
EVERY Chapter in the entire series is read that way.
25/09/2009 01:40:07 PM
- 1480 Views
Cannoli’s journal of listening to “The Nature of Pain.”
28/09/2009 01:03:35 PM
- 1974 Views
Chapter summary
24/09/2009 04:31:01 PM
- 2068 Views
sounds like its RJs work from the dialogue *NM*
24/09/2009 04:33:57 PM
- 895 Views
I should disagree
26/09/2009 10:34:58 PM
- 1610 Views
Jordan left tons of background info in notes
27/09/2009 07:36:11 PM
- 1508 Views
Re: Jordan left tons of background info in notes
27/09/2009 08:10:06 PM
- 1569 Views
Her entry in Encyclopaedia wot makes no mention of her being amyrlin *NM*
28/09/2009 01:17:49 AM
- 988 Views
Jordan could have easily added that to her backstory after LOC. It's been at least ten years.
28/09/2009 09:46:34 PM
- 1588 Views
Re: Jordan could have easily added that to her backstory after LOC. It's been at least ten years.
28/09/2009 10:04:02 PM
- 1393 Views
Can someone explain to me where Egwene developed this immense love for the Tower?
24/09/2009 04:44:28 PM
- 1658 Views
Well, she's replaced everything else in her life with the Tower.
24/09/2009 04:47:05 PM
- 1681 Views
I always thought it was the small town thing
24/09/2009 04:50:19 PM
- 1592 Views
Could it be that Fain could have contaminated her in tFOH?
24/09/2009 04:51:56 PM
- 1533 Views
So you're saying that an antagonist is being portrayed as idiotic in this series? No way!
24/09/2009 04:58:15 PM
- 1640 Views
Re: Can someone explain to me where Egwene developed this immense love for the Tower?
24/09/2009 06:01:46 PM
- 1526 Views
This made my morning happy.
24/09/2009 04:45:08 PM
- 1607 Views
I think it's different.
24/09/2009 05:51:11 PM
- 1646 Views
True.
24/09/2009 07:21:36 PM
- 1661 Views
Re: True.
24/09/2009 07:30:06 PM
- 1528 Views
I also think Egwene might free them from it once she becomes recognized Amyrlin *NM*
24/09/2009 08:36:55 PM
- 1018 Views
Re: I think it's different.
25/09/2009 03:24:22 AM
- 1515 Views
There's still a difference...
25/09/2009 04:28:55 AM
- 1411 Views
Re: There's still a difference...
26/09/2009 12:30:28 PM
- 1440 Views
But...
26/09/2009 03:44:31 PM
- 1458 Views
In PoD, it is revealed that Alviarin makes Elaida swear obedience to her.
26/09/2009 07:48:01 PM
- 1500 Views
Is Alviarin finished?
24/09/2009 04:52:31 PM
- 1617 Views
Two possibilities that come to mind
24/09/2009 05:11:41 PM
- 1534 Views
Egwene knows about the letter, and soon the BA hunters will too.
24/09/2009 07:46:34 PM
- 1587 Views
She's got to be 'raised' to the shawl first, to take the 4 oaths.
24/09/2009 10:33:42 PM
- 1505 Views
Not finished it yet
24/09/2009 05:42:18 PM
- 1691 Views
Yes, Mesaana's plain white dress seems somewhat peculiar
24/09/2009 06:43:45 PM
- 1666 Views
Are you kidding? Moridin would kill her
24/09/2009 10:50:34 PM
- 1422 Views
I doubt it - I'm of the opinion that Moridin may be next on SH's "personal attentions" list
25/09/2009 05:16:38 PM
- 1549 Views
If this is true, it could be a ploy
25/09/2009 03:06:45 AM
- 1512 Views
I liked it *Spoilers*
24/09/2009 05:49:41 PM
- 1502 Views
I think...
24/09/2009 07:01:42 PM
- 1688 Views
Re: I think...
24/09/2009 07:33:34 PM
- 1278 Views
Re: I think...
24/09/2009 08:00:09 PM
- 1650 Views
Wasn't there a high turnover in War of Power as well?
24/09/2009 08:07:38 PM
- 1365 Views
Surely worse happened in the War of Power though before the seals were laid
24/09/2009 07:58:54 PM
- 1470 Views
Egwene is arrogant as ever...thinking Rand can't possibly get along without guidance *NM*
24/09/2009 08:25:24 PM
- 1119 Views
is she wrong?
24/09/2009 08:34:44 PM
- 1566 Views
The problem is that Egwene isn't honest with herself. Two afterthouts as edits
24/09/2009 08:43:38 PM
- 1699 Views
Re: is she wrong?
25/09/2009 03:38:09 AM
- 1581 Views
Re: is she wrong?
25/09/2009 04:30:28 AM
- 1372 Views
I like Egwene but I didn't like her statement
25/09/2009 05:03:33 AM
- 1654 Views
What will happen first: black ajah hunt ends or Seanchan attack the WT?
24/09/2009 08:38:43 PM
- 1618 Views
I can never decide what I think will happen
24/09/2009 08:44:03 PM
- 1540 Views
Re: I can never decide what I think will happen
24/09/2009 09:25:18 PM
- 1491 Views
I disagree, the Rebels are better protected
24/09/2009 09:36:19 PM
- 1553 Views
I agree with you. Rebels are harder to take (rebels have Asha'man too) *NM*
24/09/2009 09:59:10 PM
- 954 Views
Yet according to one of Min's visions, Carlinya gets made "property"
29/09/2009 03:09:28 PM
- 1345 Views
Re: Yet according to one of Min's visions, Carlinya gets made "property"
29/09/2009 03:23:45 PM
- 1464 Views
OK, I didn't remember the details correctly
29/09/2009 03:38:16 PM
- 1470 Views
Re: OK, I didn't remember the details correctly
29/09/2009 04:11:22 PM
- 1566 Views
The title of book 13...
24/09/2009 09:19:17 PM
- 1357 Views
Swing and a miss.
24/09/2009 10:33:46 PM
- 1555 Views
As said
25/09/2009 06:37:46 AM
- 1352 Views
Both at once, I don't think it will be a neat A then B, or B then A
25/09/2009 03:53:30 AM
- 1440 Views
I didn't catch any hints as to Mesaana's identity. Were there any?
24/09/2009 08:51:23 PM
- 1374 Views
Also... this makes me miss RJ even more
24/09/2009 08:52:52 PM
- 1715 Views
I can't wait to actually read the chapter-- I thought it was very well written *NM*
25/09/2009 12:18:48 AM
- 900 Views
Could Elaida pass a 4th Oath?
25/09/2009 05:13:08 AM
- 1438 Views
I think it would serve as motivation for those who say "You don't have to like the Amrylin" to turn.
25/09/2009 06:08:19 AM
- 1478 Views
The Black Ajah would never stand for it, even if the other sisters would
25/09/2009 06:38:19 AM
- 1603 Views
Re: The Black Ajah would never stand for it, even if the other sisters would
26/09/2009 04:45:32 AM
- 1379 Views
Fain as the source of much of the Tower's woes
25/09/2009 05:30:49 AM
- 1402 Views
No one else thinks Fain has had any influence on Elaida's erratic behavior? *NM*
25/09/2009 05:32:05 PM
- 948 Views
What about Mesaana?
25/09/2009 06:03:41 PM
- 1313 Views
Definitely Mesana-- but I was wondering if the Shadar Logoth taint leaked onto Elaida a little
25/09/2009 07:43:24 PM
- 1531 Views
Mat vs Egwene
25/09/2009 03:34:35 PM
- 1447 Views
Re: Mat vs Egwene
25/09/2009 03:38:39 PM
- 1443 Views
Re: Mat vs Egwene
25/09/2009 03:40:32 PM
- 1463 Views
Re: Mat vs Egwene
25/09/2009 04:16:16 PM
- 1458 Views
That's not his argument though
25/09/2009 04:34:35 PM
- 1299 Views
I think...
25/09/2009 03:47:26 PM
- 1536 Views
Egwene and Mesaana
25/09/2009 06:07:37 PM
- 1480 Views
Come now...even though Mesaana is whimpy for a Forsaken, she would wipe the floor with Egwene...
25/09/2009 06:10:13 PM
- 1503 Views
Egwene would need to lead a circle or use an angreal to beat her. *NM*
25/09/2009 06:31:42 PM
- 929 Views
Unless it was based on willpower as in a conflict within Tel'Aran'Rhiod
25/09/2009 07:19:50 PM
- 1416 Views
Well... that elicited quite a reaction.
28/09/2009 06:25:52 AM
- 1257 Views
I had many of those same thoughts.
28/09/2009 05:27:43 PM
- 1484 Views
Re: I had many of those same thoughts.
28/09/2009 06:42:56 PM
- 1232 Views
Re: I had many of those same thoughts.
28/09/2009 11:08:00 PM
- 1392 Views
She'll do everything to re-unite the Tower - except anything that could actually re-unite it
29/09/2009 02:26:10 AM
- 1477 Views
Hmmm....
29/09/2009 05:30:44 AM
- 1475 Views
Re: Hmmm....
29/09/2009 06:26:17 AM
- 1471 Views
Re: Hmmm....
30/09/2009 03:00:01 AM
- 1410 Views
Elaida, Formidable?
29/09/2009 11:48:04 PM
- 1462 Views
How do you figure?
30/09/2009 12:15:47 AM
- 1215 Views
Aside from successfuly orchastrate the coup what has she done?
30/09/2009 12:35:07 AM
- 1411 Views
Re: Aside from successfuly orchastrate the coup what has she done?
30/09/2009 02:29:37 AM
- 1314 Views
Oh yeah, and...
29/09/2009 04:22:57 AM
- 1539 Views
The Dark One's Touch
30/09/2009 06:21:24 PM
- 1518 Views
Re: The Dark One's Touch
30/09/2009 06:44:53 PM
- 1313 Views