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The Headaches Knightscape Send a noteboard - 19/05/2012 04:47:23 AM
That's because, as we've learned from Elza, Verin was very clever and compelled all the sisters to find in themselves the deepest motives they could find to swear an oath to TDR. It's the kind of cleverness you'd expect from Graendal. You can't get people to do what you wish unless you understand their psychology really well and find the right triggers and buttons to use.

The descriptions of Compulsion in TGS broke the established working of Compulsion in the previous books. Previously, it was mostly about psychology, and a very deft touch at casting the net on the right areas of the brains so you interfere with just what thought processes or emotions you mean to alter, which is why Graendal is the best. Brandon got it wrong that it's about casting complex weaves in which the orders are included... he forgot it's well established Graendal's speciality isn't brain anatomy or messing in the brain with the OP (Semirhage can do this, to stimulate nerve centers etc.) but non-OP psychology....

There's zero evidence of Egwene being compelled about anything. We've got countless POVs and none of her decisions are unexplained/unmotivated.

The biggest piece of evidence Halima never compelled Egwene (who isn't a good subject at all for Compulsion.. you forget where her great Dreaming talent comes from: her willpower!) is that she had to use Sheriam and Delana and pressure them so much to get to know what Egwene was up to, and Aran'gar beat Sheriam because Sheriam wasn't getting enough information to her in time! If Aran'gar was compelling Egwene, she could ask Egwene for whatever information she wanted while she was under the weaves, and with the headaches Halima had no shortage of occasions. The other related confirmation Halima didn't have her under compulsion is how she constantly asked questions or tried to remain around when Egwene had meetings, to spy.

What Halima did was give Egwene blinding headaches, which had two advantages: justify being around her more to spy, and interfering with her Dreaming ability which could become dangerous to the Shadow (as Moridin well knew, he's a Dreamer himself). It also made Egwene crankier, tired and less concentrated. Halima's interference worked but not so well. Egwene still Dreamed, if not as much as usual.


As you point out Egwene would not be a good candidate for compulsion because she is very strong willed. It does not mean that Aran'gar would not at least try to use it on her.
In some cases Aran'gar could have totally failed, or totally succeeded, or partially succeeded.

Just a theory: Aran'gar attempts compulsion on Egwene but she does not succumb to it, she does however start experiencing some bad headaches as her subconscious fights the directives. Aran'gar notices the results of the compulsion attempt and decides to purposely intensify the headaches. The purpose of this would be to interfere with Egwene's dreaming talent, to provide a reason for Aran'gar to remain close by, and to make her more irritable and stressed out in order to make her more pliable. Aran'gar could use the time around Egwene to experiment, (which fears to play on, which insecurities to use, which likes/dislikes that could be expanded on).
Aran'gar had a lot of time and many opportunities to try many different things.
All good things come to those who wait.
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Egwene under compulsion - 17/05/2012 05:40:31 AM 1662 Views
Re: Egwene under compulsion - 17/05/2012 08:27:50 AM 934 Views
To add to that - 17/05/2012 01:46:02 PM 802 Views
Re: To add to that - 18/05/2012 06:04:07 AM 818 Views
Re: To add to that - 18/05/2012 08:58:23 AM 685 Views
Re: To add to that - 19/05/2012 04:00:49 AM 693 Views
Re: To add to that - 19/05/2012 11:04:14 AM 646 Views
Re: To add to that - 20/05/2012 05:38:31 AM 631 Views
I think you are misunderstanding what I meant - 18/05/2012 04:22:38 PM 648 Views
Re: Egwene under compulsion - 18/05/2012 11:31:01 PM 812 Views
Except we know Aran'gar was punished in some way for "losing control of her charge" - 18/05/2012 11:47:44 PM 596 Views
Re: Except we know Aran'gar was punished in some way for "losing control of her charge" - 19/05/2012 12:31:10 AM 803 Views
Yes I know. That's the point we are discussing. - 19/05/2012 12:44:27 AM 580 Views
Re: Yes I know. That's the point we are discussing. - 20/05/2012 07:01:23 AM 692 Views
Fair point on Ishamael - 20/05/2012 03:36:32 PM 723 Views
Re: Fair point on Ishamael - 21/05/2012 01:56:30 PM 713 Views
You are over simplifying it I think - 21/05/2012 03:33:48 PM 725 Views
Re: Except we know Aran'gar was punished in some way for "losing control of her charge" - 20/05/2012 06:54:40 AM 629 Views
Well, Elza did somehow... - 20/05/2012 11:04:56 AM 633 Views
It happened off screen - 20/05/2012 03:44:40 PM 638 Views
Re: It happened off screen - 21/05/2012 01:45:26 PM 618 Views
Re: Egwene under compulsion - 19/05/2012 12:05:32 AM 928 Views
And lets not forget that Egwene knows to counter compulsion... - 19/05/2012 01:13:39 AM 696 Views
The Headaches - 19/05/2012 04:47:23 AM 688 Views
Re: The Headaches - 19/05/2012 05:12:26 PM 754 Views
Re: Egwene under compulsion - 20/05/2012 06:37:23 AM 630 Views
Like I said before... - 20/05/2012 07:30:58 PM 663 Views
Re: Like I said before... - 20/05/2012 08:57:17 PM 567 Views
Finding a weave and recognizing the symptoms are different things - 21/05/2012 03:13:12 AM 552 Views
Re: Finding a weave and recognizing the symptoms are different things - 21/05/2012 01:32:30 PM 623 Views
No argument that a subtle compulsion would be necessary - 21/05/2012 01:48:06 PM 653 Views
Re: No argument that a subtle compulsion would be necessary - 21/05/2012 01:57:44 PM 623 Views
Re: No argument that a subtle compulsion would be necessary - 21/05/2012 02:44:09 PM 680 Views
Re: Like I said before... - 21/05/2012 01:21:34 PM 543 Views
Re: Like I said before... - 21/05/2012 06:00:35 PM 693 Views
Seems logical to me, for whatever that is worth. - 21/05/2012 07:28:11 PM 499 Views

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