Active Users:1173 Time:23/11/2024 02:58:37 AM
Re: She didn't know she'd be balefired... DomA Send a noteboard - 14/05/2012 10:20:01 PM
But she did know that Rand would see the compulsion. As for why Graendal didn't do it herself, I always assumed it was just laziness. Wasn't she scouting out Rand with that bird at the time, as well? I doubt you can channel OP and TP at the same time.


This is what happens:

She hears the alarm, and leaves Aran'gar and Delana to see what the fuss is about. She has Ramshalan brought to her in a separate room, and immediately wrapped him up in air and "dug into his mind", making him spill the beans. She opens a gateway, considering fleeing, but then Aran'gar comes along. She asks if Delana knows compulsion, and sends for her, then sends for the dove. She puts the weave on the dove, then Delana returns and performs the compulsion.

So lazy doesn't seem to be the reason, as she was already using Compulsion to make him talk, and she sent for Delana before doing the thing with the dove, so that's not it either.

She knew Rand, or rather Nynaeve, would be able to detect, and possibly read or remove, the Compulsion, but there is no hint that she thinks they might be able to figure out who placed it there.


The scene involves a bit of "cheating". Brandon chose to have the action in the scene go on but started hiding from the reader important chunks of Graendal's thought process. Why? Because he didn't want to kill suspense by flatly revealing that Graendal took into account the strong possibilities Rand meant to strike from afar, if she was "lucky" with balefire which would allow her to fake her death with Delana/Aran'gar. Another aspect of the plans was to make sure Aran'gar wouldn't follow her. Another thought that may have crossed Graendal's mind is that if Rand entered the palace, he might strike at first sight and mistake the lascivious Aran'gar for Graendal (Graendal didn't know LTT in Rand would recognize her on sight).

Jordan tended to avoid those cheats in POV, or disguised them differently. He might have chosen to end the scene with Graendal thinking now she had a plan, and have her ask if Delana knows compulsion, then switch to Rand's POV. Graendal would then have justified what she has done only in the aftermath scene. Even more typical of the way Jordan wrote Graendal in particular would have been to give clear signs she's puzzled stuff out and had planned a counter, without revealing what she really thought. E.g. instead of mentionning the risk of balefire straight out in the POV, allusions may have been made to Rahvin. The change in storytelling style made it less obvious to "decode" what was going on in Graendal's mind, when we're so used to Jordan's Graendal POVs.

Graendal has feared Rand tracking her down and coming at her with balefire like he's done to Rahvin since his surprise attack on Caemlyn - and she had long taken the decision she wouldn't confront him but flee if this happened. She once - presumably - took the risk to hang in the Caemlyn palace (where she bumped into Asmodean by chance and killed him) to make sure Rand didn't plan to come after her.

Of course the possibility balefire was on her mind. Two Forsaken had already fallen with balefire - and as far as Graendal knew, maybe Sammael as well.

When she saw Rand had the AK, a weapon she found little less dangerous than balefire itself (which confirms she had the threat of balefire on her mind at that point), of course Graendal considered the possibility Rand might not come anywhere near her to kill her. She doesn't lack courage. She saw an opportunity she might manage to make Rand believe he's killed her, and she took the risk to stay a bit longer to implement her plan.

Another important thing is that Graendal had spies all around Rand and as a psychiatrist understood better than most his state of mind. Rand wasn't realizing he was bordering insanity. He thought Graendal would never consider he could strike with brute force because LTT would never have come at her this way. Graendal saved herself because she rather expected she was dealing with a madman carrying a doomsday device and anything was possible...

Bottomline: Did Graendal considered the possibility balefire would be used and made Delana compel Rand's envoy to fool him it was her who died? Yeah, obviously. Was everything well integrated in the scene as Brandon wrote it? No, it wasn't, or at least Brandon didn't write this episode in a way similar to Jordan's style to handle events like this.

But there's still no question Graendal to a degree expected balefire was a strong possibility, enough to take the risk to stay a bit longer to implement a plan to make advantage of this if it turned out to be true.



This message last edited by DomA on 14/05/2012 at 10:28:31 PM
Reply to message
Delana and compulsion - 13/05/2012 10:22:50 PM 1172 Views
It was so saidar would be detected in the compulsion... - 13/05/2012 11:21:10 PM 862 Views
Re: It was so saidar would be detected in the compulsion... - 14/05/2012 07:21:57 AM 637 Views
I think you need to re-read the passage - 14/05/2012 08:07:57 AM 609 Views
Re: I think you need to re-read the passage - 14/05/2012 11:16:26 AM 616 Views
I guess I needed to re-read the passage - 14/05/2012 03:05:03 PM 692 Views
She didn't know she'd be balefired... - 14/05/2012 08:16:06 PM 617 Views
Re: She didn't know she'd be balefired... - 14/05/2012 08:53:00 PM 748 Views
Re: She didn't know she'd be balefired... - 14/05/2012 10:20:01 PM 730 Views
You clearly read the scene, so how did you miss this? - 15/05/2012 03:33:55 AM 748 Views
Re: You clearly read the scene, so how did you miss this? - 15/05/2012 08:48:32 AM 631 Views
Re: You clearly read the scene, so how did you miss this? - 15/05/2012 02:41:15 PM 503 Views
Re: You clearly read the scene, so how did you miss this? - 15/05/2012 03:10:48 PM 700 Views
Oh, by the way... - 15/05/2012 08:55:24 AM 460 Views
That doesn't make sense... - 15/05/2012 09:47:54 PM 521 Views
Everything I've read keeps me convinced that Graendal was supposed to die. - 15/05/2012 06:46:57 AM 556 Views
I don't think she was supposed to die, but... - 15/05/2012 07:14:46 AM 683 Views
Re: Everything I've read keeps me convinced that Graendal was supposed to die. - 15/05/2012 09:58:08 AM 543 Views
In all honesty I think RJ did that on purpose - 15/05/2012 01:28:13 PM 670 Views
You misunderstand. - 15/05/2012 07:46:20 PM 661 Views
Agreed... - 15/05/2012 08:41:15 PM 480 Views
Re: Agreed... - 15/05/2012 11:07:46 PM 850 Views
Yup... - 15/05/2012 11:53:12 PM 631 Views
Re: Yup... - 16/05/2012 01:13:16 AM 696 Views
We'll have to agree to disagree on Graendal, I guess... - 16/05/2012 01:40:59 AM 805 Views
Re: We'll have to agree to disagree on Graendal, I guess... - 16/05/2012 01:46:09 AM 722 Views
Re: Everything I've read keeps me convinced that Graendal was supposed to die. - 15/05/2012 01:35:18 PM 654 Views
I don't think this is the end of Graendal's story... - 15/05/2012 02:27:10 PM 579 Views
Somethign I forgot... - 15/05/2012 04:54:40 PM 760 Views

Reply to Message