On the whole I agree with you, the main difference between our opinions is that I think the whole issue of the future of channelers will come to a "block" during TG (probably just as something that divides everyone and gets pushed aside to deal with more pressing matters, and not to threaten her very fragile alliance of the women. I think this will probably be the main motive of her "professional" annoyance with Elayne - though in a personal perspective I think Egwene might feel rather hurt by what she perceives as Elayne breaking her trust, that what she did creates division, among the nations and groups of channelers. What for instance if Darlin asks if in the light of Andor-Cairhien now controlling all the trade routes between North and South everyone will get those Gateways from the Aes Sedai or will only Andor control them (Elayne used gateways for trade with Tear) - and Egwene reflects what pandora's box would open if Darlin ever learned of Elayne's permanent offer to the Kin she just put an end to? It wouldn't be long before the Seafolk jump in and start to offer deals - they've never seen matters like important discussions about the fate of the world as a valid reason to stop making Bargains!), and it's only by the epilogue section the signs that the channelers will return to live in society will appear. It think it will start with Egwene having an epiphany about "service", in the sense that she will see how astoundingly fast the Aes Sedai's reputation changed as they live and fight at people's side though TG. She will one day go to Siuan and tell her "You were wrong, it's not the Oaths that defines Aes Sedai in people's eyes, it's choosing to serve the people. We are really AS again now". I think it will start in the aftermath of TG, when Egwene decides to empty Tar Valon of all Aes Sedai she can spare and ask them to spend the coming years helping the world to recover from the Last Battle. We will get Egwene's perspective that in her mind/hopes they won't return, and her musings about how this will change the Tower in the long run, with hints of the administrative reforms she will need to work on to make it work etc.

There are really two "final" options, I think. In one, an organ will be created following a new Covenant, superceding all groups of channelers, a kind of council that would oversee common rules/issues all groups have agreed to. It's not impossible the nations are invited to join that council. I get the feeling Egwene will be very focussed on finding ways to increase and solidify the sudden more positive views of AS, that it's the reason that might motivate her to sacrifice what aspects of the WT and its tradition she must, to preserve that.

The other possibility is that the Tower absorb all the other groups. But maybe that smells of the "too neat ending" RJ claimed to be averse to.

I think it may leave that a bit open ended, that a Covenant will occur, the men will join the women, nnot all of them necessarily joining the Tower. Some Asha'man may have long dreamed of seafaring, for all we know. That would be a good way to start to "dent" the slightly xenophobic overtones of the SF if they agree to take on foreigners in fear they won't get male channelers in time, and won't be able to catch up on their skills, while the WT makes advances in the OP by leaps and bounds because of mixed gender work.

At some point, I think a male Aiel channeler has to surface. Not necessarily a sparker, but someone to with whom to challenge the male/female traditional roles.

Just a wild idea like that: Gaul was foreshadowed to become a clan chief - because one of the WO found him wise and told him he's be sent to Rhuidean one day, but what if it turns out he's the first male Aiel identified as a "learner" by an Asha'man and whom the WO decide to train to become a Wise One? Well, Asha'man would have to train him in the Power until one day there are enough Aiel male channelers, but the WO will do the rest)


But the matter of the "ultimate" future of the different organizations, how long they'll retain their individuality or how long before they all merge into a unified organization, will be left open, with perhaps only the hopes/plans of Egwene for the longer term.

One reason against this though is how much unity is a theme. It depends how much emphasis RJ wish to put on that. Will it be basic unity, or did he wish to avoid how the AOL tended to level out all differences, uniformize and fit everyone into a mold? If Rand has an on-screen opinion/reflection, would LTT tend toward a monolithic organization, or would he now think there's strength and dynamism in diversity, as long as the groups find a modus vivendi to keep them united?

As for the role of Aes Sedai now.

There is no conflict for Egwene yet. She's made personal realisations (during her version of the Epiphany, less spectacular but as important as Rand's, and much on the same themes about what living and living in the light means) about the sort of life she wants to have, but it has not started to translate into a political vision for now, beyond the fact she believes all groups of women must somehow unite, as a loose alliance or more if possible. Egwene is still very attached to the notion of the Tower as a vital political force, and it's less about power than it is about her conviction the Tower has the best background to be this central force, and already she understands it will mean compromises, and that's only the tip of the iceberg. That however conflicts with a vision where most Aes Sedai wouldn't be in Tar Valon anymore (unlike the WO and WF), where their fundamental allegiances would become very divided and the Ajah's political power would greatly diminish because sisters would become as attached to their nation/community, their families and friends, as to their Ajah. A multi-Ajah group of Domani sisters would be as likely to stand together in many issues as they would be to adopt their Ajah's views on the matter, especially as the Ajah members develop more and more diverging views, from different experiences. It's a lot the fact most AS spent their lives in TV, living in very similar conditions and developping a similar life experience while letting their youth background fade, that kept the Ajah so strong. More and more Aes Sedai would become concerned with the issues around them than with "philosophies". The sisters who choose to live at the Tower would be mostly serving in its administration or as teachers etc. One of the Browns is supposed to found a famous school. In the long term, that school -academy or university - is likely to develop a culture different from the WT Brown culture. And so on.

I'm undecided if RJ meant the Ajah to collapse before the end as an obsolete system, and one designed by and meant for women. He sure demonstrated in the late series by the WT conflict how the Ajah had come to divide the AS more than they kept them together, and it's been a main AS theme how much the Ajah have lost much of their "philosophical" nature to become plain political organs obsessed mostly with power plays. The biggest has already lost the sole purpose that united very different women, TG will place the other big Ajah in the same obsolete position, and Egwene finds the Blue too focussed etc.






I agree (including the various ways to read this). There were many such signs earlier too, from Elayne's side. Another "sign" is Nyaneve's storyline but the fact "reining in" Elayne has been postponed as she simply wriggled out of Egwene's attempt, using the excuse of her pregnancy (too many have failed to notice Elayne has conveniently and quite willfully forgotten the viewing that her babies would be born healthy, therefore the test and oaths wouldn't harm them!).

Another "sign" of the conflict may be how Elayne parallels Egwene's issues with her brother Gawyn who also by-passed her authority. None of the Trakands were ever so good at following orders or falling in line, starting with Morgase herself. This is one of the first traits of Elayne introduced in the series. One of the first ones of Morgase introduced as well (she rejects Elaida's advice in her first scene).

I tend to read Egwene's comment as an admission controlling Elayne won't be easy, without resorting to means she'd rather put behind her, and perhaps without seing the end of their friendship. We may possibly read that Egwene is becoming worried Elayne will be a problem soon. I mean, Egwene is fully aware of Elayne's tendency to by-pass her authority, and in COT there were signs she's suspecting there's more Elayne is hiding from her.



For sure, though it's not about the commercial aspect. The WT sold those objects. It's really more about channellers putting themselves to the service of a nation, serving only its interests, that would worry Egwene, and for good reasons. The SF were held in check solely by the need to keep the WF secret and the fact this lead to specialization. That constrained the WF to seafaring in high seas. Things are evolving terribly fast since the necessity for secrecy has fallen. They already secured the mean to widen their OP knowledge and thus be able to market their skills, they secured a ter'angreal that once they master its use (it was overuse, it's not supposed to be used for global effects but in a far more localized way) would allow them to sell a "good season" to any nation willing to pay their price (how would that affect weather in neighbouring regions is an unknown.. those ter'angreal were designed to be networked). The SF need to be "controlled" before this degenerates in situations propitous for war. RJ depicts them as extremely greedy, and if Elayne originally perceive that quite well, she's since started to fall under their logic. The situation is more complex than it appears. The SF may grow too rich and powerful to be interested very long in Egwene's alliance, once they got all they want from it. To counter the Seafolk's "commercialization" of channneling, Egwene has the choice between throwing the Tower in competition with the SF by letting sisters offer similar deals to the nations. That would be the end of AS political neutrality, and the end of its political relevance. The second choice is to distance TV from any trade dealings but let the individual sisters do business. That too would create problems - the issue that OP discoveries would be too valuable to share would arise eary. The third path is to unite every group under a Covenant and turn most channeling into a "communal resource". That seems to be the path chosen in the AOL. The Guild must have defined a ton of services as duties the Guild offered "for free" to anyone who petitionned them, that is a system was in place to subsidize the Guild, e.g. the nations taxed their citizens. That could mean for instance activities related to basic human needs like providing emergency help after a natural disaster, alimentation/agriculture, weather control, healthcare and so on were offered equally to anyone/any nation in the Covenant. Not only that, but it may have been forbidden to keep secret whole categories of weaves, for e.g. it could have been mandatory to report any new Healing weave to the Restorers's administration. That would mean an Aes Sedai in full time public service like a Restorer could be a civil servant, paid by the Guild. OTOH, it's fairly likely whole areas of OP services were completely on the "free market". You bought your VR system from a company that employed AS, not some communist-style standard crap from the Guild; you commissioned an Aes Sedai artist for your crazy OP sculpture for your restaurant, a city that wanted a bridge paid a construction company. Etc. A key-aspect in the system seems to have been that all Aes Sedai had to provide their share of "community service", perhaps even without remuneration.



That could happen very fast if Rand gets personally involved, not out of an agenda, but because he comments on something that makes no sense to LTT. There's the fact he might point out to Egwene the Binder was for people who couldn't be trusted to follow the ethical rules.

There may be opportunities for Rand to get involved, perhaps as early as Merrilor, as Egwene will want to put to the test every sister in the various "inner circles", no doubt at Merrilor itself (unless that meeting goes really fast). The issues of "retirement" is rather pressing for at least two Aes Sedai (Cadsuane and Romanda). Rand may very decide to point out Cadsuane shouldn't re swear the Oaths (we know the fact of doing it in itself has no effect. I rather mean LTT will be aware that Cadsuane has reached the age when the Binder may kill her any day now. Cadsuane like Romanda would no doubt take the stance of "better dead than no longer AS", but if anyone can realize how deeply flawed Egwene's idea to force AS to retire from active life and into the Kin by midlife is, it will be LTT).

The issue of the Oaths will also arise very soon, through the various moves to bring the channelers together. Because of TG as well. Egwene will want the WF and WO to eventually agree to some rules. She will doubtfully ever convince them to take the Oaths - not that women like Siuan would see that idea as acceptable since Oaths are for Aes Sedai and define AS in the face of any other group of "wilders". We don't even know if a Binder work for both genders or if it's gender-keyed. I suspect it's the latter, that a lot of ter'angreal not meant to be used by mixed gender circles or powered by the Standing Flows work with either saidar or saidin but not both. That would turn the Oaths into a major obstacle in the way of the reunification of men and women Aes Sedai.

The purpose of the first Oath is obsolete. It's even detrimental to the WT, gave them their reputation of crafty liars, they just don't realize it. The WT seems to have never understood the right path was to convince the sisters not to lie or deceive, because if that was the original intention, it went overboard very fast as the AS returned to their old ways of using deception.

The second Oath is detrimental to TG, preventing or limiting AS from making weapons. The third Oath puts them in danger from the Seanchan. They need to let them get close enough to threaten their lives and so on.

The first Oath needs to go, the other two need to be put aside for now, and eventually resurface as part of a channelers's much widened universal ethical code, not as bound oaths anymore.

RJ has put several dents in the Oaths in recent books. Mat/Joline revealed to the Seanchan military what a sham the third Oath is, for instance, that AS only had to be placed in fear for their life to be able to use the OP as weapon. One major flaw in that Oath is that it doesn't even force a sister to use the OP as weapon against what's threatening her life. You could put a knife to a damane's throat, and as long as she thinks she will die and the only way to defend her life is to channel, she can strike at anyone, not against the sul'dam holding the knife.

Another dent, from TOM, is Perrin's Hammer. Aes Sedai were involved in its making (in the circle), proving there's a loophole in that Oath as well. Aiel now want to get OP-made spearheads. Brandon showed that bubbles of evil can now make normal steel useless. Nice risk to take facing armies of the Shadow.... Rand may even ask or advise Egwene to consider renouncing the second Oath for TG soon. If not Rand, someone else will.



Except it's not really a rule but a deeply ingrained tradition (the weight they put on that varies from Ajah to Ajah - the Greens for instance have another secret hierarchy among themselves, which might explain why Greens seem less prone to rely on that system. For most it's probably just for Ajah matters, but Cadsuane for instance puts the sisters she wishes in charge based of their competence for specific tasks, and listen to whoever she thinks makes sense. In another circle, Daigian wouldn't even dare offer any opinion). I think Egwene can take some steps to undermine the system, but edicts won't work to destroy it. She can set rules for AS as a whole, but she can't interfere in Ajah matters. It will take much time before the system really disappears. One factor that would change everything much faster could be the re discovery soon of the making of angreal. The return of personal angreal in the equation would level out things and relativize the raw strength factor.



Indeed, though I seriously doubt any sister would be tempted to join the Windfinders, when even some Windfinders are unhappy with their system. Their gripes are likely to grow with contact with other channelers allowed to do what they want. The Clans don't realize either that by training the WF in other things, the Windfinders will more and more refuse to be constrained to do what they're told to do, instead of what they wish to do. It was simple until recently: channeling meant you served on a ship, and followed a strict path. It won't be like that anymore....

The WF have fairly little freedom and are very constrained. The real interest of the SF system is that they found a way to give a voice to the non-channeling leaders in channeling matters (a major factor of tension between the WT and the nations). They just go too far with it and Windfinders are starting to show signs of rebelling. Male channelers are coming too, and they have no place whatsoever in that system, no trsdition. This too will contribute to big changes among the SF.

And even if they don't rank them that way, they don't value weak channelers that much. It's the WO who put no value im that, the result of being a mixed organization of channelers and non-channelers, and the fact the WO have hidden and underused their abilities. That too will change, and it will be interesting to see where the fact only some WO are channelers will evolve in relation to Egwene's plans to tie them to the WT. That gives weight to the notion of a full integration, in the sense that all channelers will bear the Aes Sedai title, even though most SF ones will be Aes Sedai serving as Windfinders, and most Aiel will be Aes Sedai serving as WO.

Two big wildcards for the Aiel are first what will happen to their male channelers. Including them among the WO would seriously change the system. WO typically marry clan chiefs and tie themselves further to the septs as sister-wives. Those traditions don't work for male WO. The second factor is that the future of the Aiel is one of those that might radically change and we have very little idea of what will come out of that. What place would the WO have among "neo da'shain"? In the old days, it's very likely the da'shain had the equivalent of WO among them, but Aiel who could channel all became Aes Sedai. The male channelers might bring big changes in the social role of channelers among the Aiel. Not all of them of any gender may become WO anymore.




The return of male channelers will shatter the last barriers, I think, and WO and Winfinders already commonly marry and give birth. They learn to live with the sadder aspects, like outliving your children, grandchildren, and to enjoy the advantages, like seeing your family circle grow larger and larger as you grow old.

The fact AS don't marry is due to many identifiable factors, one of which is the fact it would be highly impractical for the Tower and would have lead to many AS living outside TV, which means far less control over the AS and so on. It sounds like the WT used the disappearance of male channelers to discourage marriage - the psychological factors owe more to the same worldview/agenda that encourages the sisters to cut ties to their families and nations. A channeler also have much greater odds to give birth to another, and at some point early on this must have been a serious deterrent - the sisters would have to gentle their own male children. That would have been excruciating for their mothers, and it would have been terrible for the image of the WT.



The winds of change are definitely picking up, but I still think most of that will have to wait for the epilogue. Comments may be made, problems may arise, conflicts may occur, but I think the solutions will for the most part crystalize in the post TG section (and be simpler than our theories I think, mostly because I think RJ always intended to give us many clues to possible options for the future of, but also to leave it as the main topic of discussions for fans after it's over).

The most pressing challenge Egwene will face is that of the male channelers. The Shadow isn't likely to graciously give up the black uniforms so no one gets confused... Tons of problems may originate from that. The fastest the Asha'man abandon anything linked to the BT and leave that to the Dreadlords, the better. The pins they may keep, but the black uniforms and perhaps even the name Asha'man they'd be much better leaving behind. They're not terribly attached to any of that. Most of them aren't so tied to the BT establishement, they are all those Taim rejected.

I get the feeling the day the WT starts to fly the Banner of the Light as the symbol of the new alliance isn't that far. I also think it's Egwene who will extend the hand to the male channelers. They have to stay very close, they have too much work to do to train everyone, and very little time.

When in this Egwene will decide to grant the title of Aes Sedai to the full Asha'man is anyone's guess. I don't think there will be time during TG to merge the leaderships or even begin to design how.

I get the feeling Egwene will first have to organize the Tower for war. I'm very eager to see the Green organization come into play. I suspect Mat will remember their system in time, from the Trolloc Wars.

If the Green Ajah isn't the epitome of incompetence, they must have thought out some sort of "plan" to rapidly organize the WT for TG. They have their hidden hierarchy - so they must all have their lose "role", but it must go beyond that. Cadsuane's methods are a very big clue, I think. Organizing the sisters is second nature to her. Her core group included a top logician as her main "sounding board", a few top notch Healers. She has a keen eye for circles (even without much knowledge of male channelers). I think this may well reflect the way the Green Ajah tends to organize things and may suggest Aderlona will soon step up and give Egwene the whole picture. I don't think either how Alanna and Verin organized themselves in the TR owed much of anything to Verin, who skips battles in books.

I think it's quite possible Egwene's contribution will be to create a War Council with the AH, then put the Hall, reporting to the Keeper, in charge fully of administration and figuring out how to implement the various directives of the Council. I think the full mobilization of the Tower and commandement in the field will be left essentially to the Green Ajah. I suspect that like Cadsuane, the Greens have had their eyes on the other Ajahs, that they know which sisters would be the best Healers in the field, which Browns are well-versed in what, who are the good strategists the WT has - and this probably extend to the Warders too etc. It will be curious to see how the former Asha'man fit in. The necessity to coordinate the Asha'man and the Green and very fast is what makes me think the most Cadsuane will have a pivotal role with AS rather than remaining close to Rand for very long. There may also be some surprises with the hierarchy. I wouldn't be surprised much if Adelorna's role is more logistical and near Egwene/the AH and Cadsuane turns out to be the highest ranking field commander, or rather of the highest field rank they have anyway (which other sisters may have too). If should be fun too see which Greens rise to prominence all of a sudden. I suspect Merise is another of the very high ranking Greens. Bera and Kiruna too.