I agree that Demandred has far more recruits than we know, but I think it is an unintended byproduct of his initial plan i.e. to sow chaos. It's most likely that he ordered Taim to recruit and train men for the sole reason that so many would go insane that they would consume all of Rand's time, wreck the civilized world and provide him with a wonderfully disarrayed Light from which to launch his primary invasion. When the taint vanished, Demandred suddenly had to shift his plan - all those channelers were no longer risks, they were assets. He then told Taim to divert all the recruits to the secret training bases, and that's when he really got going with forced turnings. But I don't think anything happened regarding true recruiting of males for the Shadow prior to the cleansing of saidin.


Well yes, except I don't think Demandred did any male recruiting before WH. Why would he? Demandred isn't crazy enough to use tainted male channelers. He would have to spend half his time fighting rabid males on his own side or putting them down as they started to behave erratically. There is no proof that anyone except the Forsaken have protection from the taint, and I don't think he ever considered using male channelers until that point in the series.


It's a nice theory, but I prefer the easier one i.e. Aran'gar killed them. It's pretty much implied anyway. Aran'gar said that she knew everything about Cabriana thanks to Semirhage, and she went and killed her two closest associates to prevent a link to her. The fact that it created paranoia regarding the Ash'aman was an excellent way to keep the two groups at a distance. Aran'gar is highly impulsive anyway - it's one of her most well known traits. Mesaana also become extremely angry with Aran'gar when Egwene started to stray implying that the trio relied on Aran'gar to do her job. It doesn't make sense to say that they were trying to remove her, and then they ambush her at the first Forsaken meeting.



I'll have to disagree with this too. The Forsaken are the most likely explanation for a giant spike in the One Power. The fact that people bought it so easily was a testament to the validity of the claim. As for the Ash'aman, I presumed that it was the work of the Wheel of Time. To claim that saidin was cleansed and that 3,000 years of bad blood between the sexes was cured by the Shadow is very cynical indeed! It's more likely saidin was cleansed and the two could be actively encouraged to work together in preparation for the Last Battle.



I think the Shadow covets a lot of what the Light has, but it doesn't mean it can implement it. Mesaana by her own admission couldn't steal angreal and sa'angreal from the White Tower, and I have made no claim that they are not interested in objects of the Power. The Shadow encouraged the formation of the Ash'aman, and the destruction they could unleash once the taint caught them. The Black Ajah were a well established entity, but that fell horribly flat.



I really don't know how it is done. Thirteen women can pull it off, but so can a mixed circle. We just don't know.


Absolutely. I'm pretty sure the male channeler who blew a hole in the wall was one such person. I never considered it to be one of the Forsaken.


My initial contention was that Demandred would have to fight this battle in a very different way to the War of Power.


There is no proof that battles are fought like that. Again and again we have seen that the Light prefers to keep channelers separate during large battles. That was seen when Rand and his friends defeated the 100,000 trollocs even though they could have made an enormous circle. Even the Aes Sedai don't link during battle (Cadsuane vs Fain, Aes Sedai vs Shaido). I do not doubt that the superiority of using both powers together, but in battle it can hardly be called standard practice. Lews Therin showed exactly how dangerous a 'male only' club can be, and no one ever considered him to be a fool.


Are you serious? There are thousands of darkfriends, men like Ingtar. I doubt the Forsaken are not going to use them. Demandred hates everything and everybody - I really don't think its good evidence to show what he will and will not do. He thinks he was above Lews Therin, for crying out loud.


From what we know Ishamael didn't teach mixed circles to his dreadlords in that War either. I see no evidence that the dreadlords ever linked in that War. Its weak evidence for the great last battle, but also rather important considering we're debating what Forsaken would do if they got hold of these two groups.


That remains to be seen, unless you're just referring to Aes Sedai. I think there will be more Shadowspawn than in the War of Power. It's been alluded to already, and when Demandred or Moridin unleashes it, its going to be phenomenal. It might be one more reason why the Light needs so many mixed circles and sa'angreal. If they Shadow outnumbers the Light by less than 1000:1 I'll be very surprised.


I can't really figure out what Demandred is planning, but I'm sure its not a straight forward assault from the Blight. Most likely he's planning a round of simultaneous and devastating acts of sabotage or key assassinations in an attempt to disperse the Light. The Caemlyn idea is a nice one, but at the same time I don't see how Verin could have come across that piece of information. It seems that Demandred would tell no one what he was planning, perhaps not even Mesaana or Semirhage. Moridin did ask if they are ready and it seems to me that he is co-coordinating the attack, but Demandred will lead it.


Nice ideas. It will be interesting to see how Forsaken treat the True Power 'gift'. They'll be like dogs who have caught a bone and don't know what to do with it. Either way, I think the Light will be in trouble if any of the Forsaken use the True Power primarily.