The
He never said any such thing. All he ever said was that the nature of the two forces is such they are equal in nature (he never spoke of power) and totally opposite at the the same time and could no co-exist in the same space. If you force a quantity of both together, they destroy each other. This is what happened at the Cleansing, the Taint of saidin and Mashadar/SL destroyed one another. All that remains of Mashadar/its taint is with Fain and his dagger that weren't there and weren't destroyed.
Mashadar was hardly the equal of Shai'tan. The taint on saidin was but a small portion of Shai'tan's total power and it was enough to destroy the whole of Mashadar. That Shadar Logoth was a match for the Taint is no coincidence, the Wheel made Shadar Logoth for that very purpose - the sacrifice to get rid of the DO's taint. Perhaps this weakened Shai'tan's power forever, but it changes nothing since Mashadar was a corrupted force from within Creation, so if Shai'tan made a permanent loss of his total energy then, so did the Creator.
Fain's corruptive powers are definitely growing, but he would have to corrupt all of Creation to match Shai'tan's power. The best Fain might "achieve", I would guess, is to have grown powerful enough that a clash with Shaidar Haran would destroy both Fain and SH. I think this is more or less the purpose of Fain and here's why: much like there was a taint on saidin, when Rand manages to make the Pattern impenetrable to Shai'tan again, there will be a residual amount of Shai'tan's "power"/influence etc. left trapped inside - which may very well include the very creature imprinted with Shai'tan's mind... Shaidar Haran. What he could do then is theorical. For all we know, what's left of the TP "inside" Creation, for instance that in Shadowspawn and such, in the Blight and so on might be enough for SH to draw it all (killing all Shadowspawn, absorbing all the maintains the Blight etc.) to attempt to drill a new Bore. Totally theorical, as I said. I don't know exactly why what has been touched by the TP remaining after the sealing (or at the very moment of the sealing) must be destroyed but it sounds very likely it has to, and that's the reason why Fain exists, I think. I think Fain's power by the time of the sealing will be equal to the residue of the True Power/Shai'tan left inside. They'll destroy each other, leaving Creation clean of the DO's touch again, as before the Bore (or even as before the weakness in the pattern appeared, if that weakness is not a permanent feature that remains there always. I suspect it is).
Thematically, Fain represents what happens when those who fight for Creation make themselves as evil as the Shadow to fight it. It gives them the power to destroy the Shadow, but this comes with the destruction of the Light at the same time. Fighting for Creation rather means embracing it fully, and find a way to restore the dividing line between Shadow and Light. Mashadar rather rejects life, and in death grows to absorb all the light to throw himself at the Shadow, destroying for good both forces.
Fain represents self-destruction, one of the two traps Rand very nearly fell into during TGS. First, he gave in to the Dark One to save Min, then he took the path of Shadar Logoth, of mistrust, hatred etc. to the point he nearly killed his own father and on Dragonmount he considered denying Shai'tan his victory by destroying Creation. For several books then, Rand more and more was embracing the ways of the Shadow to fight the Shadow. It had reached the point where he walked, he corrupted. This didn't come from Shai'tan or the True Power, this was Rand, and a power all too similar to Mashadar. Rand was becoming his own walking "Shadar Logoth".
Fain is not like Shai'tan, he's grown into something more like a Dark Dragon. "Dark Rand" is now gone with his epiphany and he's totally become the Champion of the Creator. Fain is what remains of that "theme", but unless he manages to turn the whole world in to SL, he won't ever be a match for Shai'tan, and he wouldn't take his place... Fain would corrupt Creation, and then Shai'tan an Fain would destroy one another.... It would be the end of everything... Shai'tan and Creator alike.
If my memory serve. RJ says that both entities are equal in power.
He never said any such thing. All he ever said was that the nature of the two forces is such they are equal in nature (he never spoke of power) and totally opposite at the the same time and could no co-exist in the same space. If you force a quantity of both together, they destroy each other. This is what happened at the Cleansing, the Taint of saidin and Mashadar/SL destroyed one another. All that remains of Mashadar/its taint is with Fain and his dagger that weren't there and weren't destroyed.
Mashadar was hardly the equal of Shai'tan. The taint on saidin was but a small portion of Shai'tan's total power and it was enough to destroy the whole of Mashadar. That Shadar Logoth was a match for the Taint is no coincidence, the Wheel made Shadar Logoth for that very purpose - the sacrifice to get rid of the DO's taint. Perhaps this weakened Shai'tan's power forever, but it changes nothing since Mashadar was a corrupted force from within Creation, so if Shai'tan made a permanent loss of his total energy then, so did the Creator.
Fain's corruptive powers are definitely growing, but he would have to corrupt all of Creation to match Shai'tan's power. The best Fain might "achieve", I would guess, is to have grown powerful enough that a clash with Shaidar Haran would destroy both Fain and SH. I think this is more or less the purpose of Fain and here's why: much like there was a taint on saidin, when Rand manages to make the Pattern impenetrable to Shai'tan again, there will be a residual amount of Shai'tan's "power"/influence etc. left trapped inside - which may very well include the very creature imprinted with Shai'tan's mind... Shaidar Haran. What he could do then is theorical. For all we know, what's left of the TP "inside" Creation, for instance that in Shadowspawn and such, in the Blight and so on might be enough for SH to draw it all (killing all Shadowspawn, absorbing all the maintains the Blight etc.) to attempt to drill a new Bore. Totally theorical, as I said. I don't know exactly why what has been touched by the TP remaining after the sealing (or at the very moment of the sealing) must be destroyed but it sounds very likely it has to, and that's the reason why Fain exists, I think. I think Fain's power by the time of the sealing will be equal to the residue of the True Power/Shai'tan left inside. They'll destroy each other, leaving Creation clean of the DO's touch again, as before the Bore (or even as before the weakness in the pattern appeared, if that weakness is not a permanent feature that remains there always. I suspect it is).
Thematically, Fain represents what happens when those who fight for Creation make themselves as evil as the Shadow to fight it. It gives them the power to destroy the Shadow, but this comes with the destruction of the Light at the same time. Fighting for Creation rather means embracing it fully, and find a way to restore the dividing line between Shadow and Light. Mashadar rather rejects life, and in death grows to absorb all the light to throw himself at the Shadow, destroying for good both forces.
Fain represents self-destruction, one of the two traps Rand very nearly fell into during TGS. First, he gave in to the Dark One to save Min, then he took the path of Shadar Logoth, of mistrust, hatred etc. to the point he nearly killed his own father and on Dragonmount he considered denying Shai'tan his victory by destroying Creation. For several books then, Rand more and more was embracing the ways of the Shadow to fight the Shadow. It had reached the point where he walked, he corrupted. This didn't come from Shai'tan or the True Power, this was Rand, and a power all too similar to Mashadar. Rand was becoming his own walking "Shadar Logoth".
Fain is not like Shai'tan, he's grown into something more like a Dark Dragon. "Dark Rand" is now gone with his epiphany and he's totally become the Champion of the Creator. Fain is what remains of that "theme", but unless he manages to turn the whole world in to SL, he won't ever be a match for Shai'tan, and he wouldn't take his place... Fain would corrupt Creation, and then Shai'tan an Fain would destroy one another.... It would be the end of everything... Shai'tan and Creator alike.
I was convince that somewhere it says that either one can't win a direct fight or something like that.
Anyhow is it not true that both entity are equally big? just like Ying/Yang?
If so, if X amount from both, put together, get destroyed and nothing remains. If both enties are equaly big, than if both are put in direct contact they are both destroyed. Thus being equal in power, as for determine if creation force is stronger than destruction, it is a matter of perception.
What's so special about Callandor?
06/03/2012 07:31:40 PM
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Honestly, I'm more curious about the "Dragon-only" barrier that surrounded it
06/03/2012 09:16:15 PM
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I also think the flaw might be deliberate
06/03/2012 09:56:02 PM
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Re: I also think the flaw might be deliberate
07/03/2012 04:11:21 AM
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RJ addressed this ... I had a similar thought several years back and this quote was floated my way
07/03/2012 04:18:01 AM
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Using the True Power to win Tarmon Gai'don goes against every moral in the series.
07/03/2012 07:00:02 AM
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actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues
07/03/2012 10:36:03 AM
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Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues
07/03/2012 06:02:48 PM
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Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues
07/03/2012 06:18:16 PM
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Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues
07/03/2012 11:38:56 PM
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Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues
10/03/2012 11:52:23 AM
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Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues
10/03/2012 06:40:00 PM
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Have to agree with you on this
12/03/2012 01:17:06 AM
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Re: Have to agree with you on this
12/03/2012 02:36:13 PM
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Fain has become so much more than human. We have no real sense of the limits of his power
18/03/2012 11:21:54 PM
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Shai'tan is the opposite half of the Creator.
19/03/2012 01:44:31 AM
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I actually don't see it that way
19/03/2012 03:37:26 AM
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depends how you look at it
19/03/2012 10:41:28 AM
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Re: depends how you look at it
19/03/2012 01:07:21 PM
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Re: depends how you look at it
19/03/2012 08:12:17 PM
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Re: depends how you look at it
20/03/2012 12:51:48 PM
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The DO did not not destroy Mashadar alone
19/03/2012 11:42:21 PM
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That's not correct.
20/03/2012 01:55:05 AM
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Saidin and the True Power both touched Mashadar
20/03/2012 01:11:17 PM
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RJ Quote:
19/03/2012 06:52:12 PM
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Exactly
19/03/2012 08:54:22 PM
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Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction
19/03/2012 11:48:20 PM
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Re: Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction
20/03/2012 01:06:20 PM
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My point with imagination is simply that destruction only does 1 thing
20/03/2012 01:14:55 PM
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Re: Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction
20/03/2012 04:35:17 PM
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Re: Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction
20/03/2012 04:59:13 PM
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Re: Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction
20/03/2012 08:57:35 PM
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Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues
14/03/2012 12:15:36 PM
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I totally agree with you on both issues Ben
07/03/2012 11:44:42 PM
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No, I don't agree
10/03/2012 12:11:37 PM
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That makes no sense...
10/03/2012 09:21:19 PM
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Re: That makes no sense...
11/03/2012 12:25:53 AM
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Name an existing well that has that much power, though.
11/03/2012 01:11:40 AM
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He makes a good point though.
11/03/2012 05:49:59 AM
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Yes, but...
11/03/2012 06:17:25 AM
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Re: Yes, but...
11/03/2012 06:47:43 PM
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How the Three can become One using the True Power...mindtraps of Moggy and Cyndane...
12/03/2012 06:04:22 PM
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Whether it happens or not, it might explain the choice of mind trap victims
13/03/2012 06:43:45 AM
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Re: Whether it happens or not, it might explain the choice of mind trap victims
13/03/2012 05:19:21 PM
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