I don't know where you get all your figures from. They seem to be completely random and pulled out of a hat and not at all verifiable.Why was Nynaeve two-thirds of her full strength in book 4 and not at 50% or 90%?
Moghedien is conceivably much weaker than the others because she states that others in the AOL considered her not to be a threat meaning that many tiers exist above her. She has also never been seen with the other Forsaken prior to Moridin appearing and providing her with protection as his slave. Considering outright murder is encouraged in the Shadow, it is illogical to think that anyone is much weaker in the remaining 12 Forsaken. Any of the Forsaken would instantly kill a weaker opponent and yet they cannot do so with each other and dare not risk it. It therefore makes sense to suggest that all of the Forsaken are clustered close to maximum strength. They are after all the strongest channelers in the world.
Moghedien is conceivably much weaker than the others because she states that others in the AOL considered her not to be a threat meaning that many tiers exist above her. She has also never been seen with the other Forsaken prior to Moridin appearing and providing her with protection as his slave. Considering outright murder is encouraged in the Shadow, it is illogical to think that anyone is much weaker in the remaining 12 Forsaken. Any of the Forsaken would instantly kill a weaker opponent and yet they cannot do so with each other and dare not risk it. It therefore makes sense to suggest that all of the Forsaken are clustered close to maximum strength. They are after all the strongest channelers in the world.
It all comes down to Nynaeve:
Based on all the evidence we have of female strength progresssion, all the quotes relating to Nynaeve's strength, all the supporting evidence: What percentage of her strength had she reached in tSR?
That's all you need to answer, and the rest is a matter of logical deduction.
Ignoring the Forsaken, all the evidence points to Nynaeve being far from her full strength back then.
If the only reason you place her higher is the need to bring Moghedien closer to the other Forsaken, then you aren't assessing Nynaeve's strength with an open mind.
Come on, be honest: Based on all the information we have on Nynaeve in the entire series, if you had to put your life on it, what percentage of her full strength would you estimate her to be at in Book 4?
That's all that matters.
I think its mad to bet on that sort of thing. We have no idea what, or even if, RJ intended to show any demonstrable strength at these stages of the series.
I would say she was about 60 to 80% of her strength when she fought Moghedien. As always I do not claim that this is nearly accurate, which is one of my problems with your theory, and I definitely don't think anything can be extrapolated from it as you said. How the rest be logical deduction? We dont know anything about the strengths of Graendal or Semirhage relative to Nynaeve.
Moghedien is not useful either. I've said from the beginning of this debate that she is much weaker than the other women, so if her strength is 50 or 90, it still doesnt change my opinion that all of the other Forsaken are close to maximum strength i.e within ten percent of Rand's power.
So your gut feel is 60-80% of her maximum strength. I'd say my estimate of around 70% is slap bang in the middle of your assessment.
As for Semirhage. We know EXACTLY how close she is to Nynaeve's full strength. Sanderson said that she and Nynaeve are virtually equal in strength, with Nynaeve maybe a tad stronger.
So if Nynaeve is at 60-80% of her full strength when she MATCHES Moghedien, then it means that Moghedien is essentially 60-80% as strong as Semirhage.
That's pretty logical.
This message last edited by Shannow on 13/12/2011 at 01:37:08 PM
Underestimating Forsaken strength
11/12/2011 05:57:22 AM
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Yes, you are probably correct
12/12/2011 06:26:07 AM
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Re: and some of the information given to us is flawed
12/12/2011 07:38:59 PM
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The real question is - What percentage of her full strength did Nynaeve achieve by Book 4?
12/12/2011 08:31:30 PM
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I find that unlikely
12/12/2011 09:28:07 PM
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Easy question for you: Based on the evidence, what percentage of her strength was Nynaeve at in tSR?
13/12/2011 07:09:56 AM
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Well....
13/12/2011 01:12:48 PM
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Well there we have it
13/12/2011 01:36:45 PM
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Re: Well there we have it
13/12/2011 02:06:14 PM
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Re: Well there we have it
13/12/2011 02:12:10 PM
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Alivia may not even be stronger than Nynaeve...
14/12/2011 03:14:06 AM
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That wouldn't surprise me actually *NM*
14/12/2011 07:46:47 AM
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Where would you place Egwene though?
14/12/2011 09:13:46 AM
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Re: Where would you place Egwene though?
14/12/2011 12:53:49 PM
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Bonfire next to a candle indeed. Hehehe...
14/12/2011 05:50:34 PM
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14/12/2011 06:56:40 PM
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The same "step" you refer to seperates Egwene from normal Aes Sedai according to RJ...
14/12/2011 07:14:55 PM
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Yes I would agree with that
14/12/2011 08:24:35 PM
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Alivia with an angreal > > > Cyndane
14/12/2011 08:50:41 PM
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So many instances of logical laziness in that post...
14/12/2011 10:01:45 PM
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Re: So many instances of logical laziness in that post...
15/12/2011 06:16:01 AM
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There's always room for error, and in general I agree with some of your placements...
15/12/2011 07:03:01 AM
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Re: There's always room for error, and in general I agree with some of your placements...
17/12/2011 10:25:47 AM
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Because a difference of a few % is negligible, and not even worth mentioning...
17/12/2011 10:54:49 AM
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Yes
13/12/2011 04:16:40 PM
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Re: Yes
13/12/2011 04:47:17 PM
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Nah. Beyond the realm of possibility. Sorry,
13/12/2011 05:12:40 PM
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There are a number of comments from Q&As that shows that this is possible and more complex.
13/12/2011 08:23:49 PM
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None of which I disagree with, but a far cry from women being weaker just due to believing it...
13/12/2011 08:39:40 PM
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But that is my point: it wouldn't be merely force of will.
13/12/2011 09:40:17 PM
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Wait.. I DIDN'T write that!
14/12/2011 03:02:04 AM
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Reply to your question of - "Why use Logain gateway comparison as evidence:"
17/12/2011 03:08:19 PM
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On gateways
18/12/2011 07:17:09 AM
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Might assume that Elayne is stronger in the Power than Aviendha.
19/12/2011 02:40:46 PM
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I suspect he knows that...
19/12/2011 05:53:00 PM
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