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Yes, you are probably correct Sidious Send a noteboard - 12/12/2011 06:26:07 AM
While reading debates here about which female forsaken is stronger than the other... I always see statements like "Mesaana is among the weaker forsaken."

But think about Mesaana's strength in relative terms. We're comparing her to only a FEW very strong channelers that are stronger than her. The strength difference could even be marginal.

We know that the only very large margin in strength is between Lanfear and the next strongest female Forsaken. People here have forgotten that Lanfear is second to only Ishaemael/Rand in strength. She is out of the other female Forsakens' league.

Semirhage, Graendal, Mesaana, and maybe even Moghedien could all have very small margins of difference in their One Power strengths.

It could be very likely that Semirhage and Graendal are the same in OP strength, or so close as to be negligible (such as Talaan and Nynaeve).


Everything we know about the female Forsaken is speculation. In fact, there is only one truly indisputable fact regarding their strength i.e. Cyndane is stronger than Graendal. And from this we can deduce that Lanfear was even stronger than Cyndane. Everything else is hypothetical. We have no idea how the rest of the strength tree looks... It's Lanfear, Cyndane, Graendal... and the position of the other three is unknown.

A lot of the speculation comes from the statement that Alivia is considerably stronger than Nynaeve in WH, implying that there is a large gap between Nynaeve's level and Lanfear's (who is generally considered to be the highest attainable female strength). However, Nynaeve was still not at full strength at this stage. The statement is also made by one of the Kin who has infantile strength compared to both of them. If Alivia has a strength of 90 and Nynaeve 88, and Reanne has a strength of 10, then Nynaeve is almost 20% of her strength weaker than Alivia, thus being 'considerably weaker'. It's also possible Alivia is at 90 and Nynaeve at 75... we just don't know.

We know from RJ that Nynaeve is as strong as most of the female Forsaken, and this is generally taken to mean that she is weaker than Lanfear and Graendal, but as strong as the other three. Moghedien is undoubtedly the weakest, both due to her behaviour, and due to the fact that Nynaeve matched her directly in power early on in the series. Brandon Sanderson also confirmed recently that Mesaana is not a very strong Forsaken in his opinion. Semirhage is most likely to be on Nynaeve's level, or close to it.

The most likely strength tree is Lanfear, Cyndane, Graendal, Semirhage/Nynaeve, Mesaana, Moghedien.

I personally believe that the gaps are small, except perhaps that Moghedien is considerably weaker. I think all of them are 90 to 100% of as strong as possible, maybe even 95 to 100%, which allows them to stand in each other's company without outright murder occuring (which Moghedien does not risk unless commanded to by the Nae'blis). A lot of evidence for the large gaps rests on the fact that high strength males seem to be able to overwhelm higher level female channelers from various quotes, but it has never been demonstrated practically, and even directly contradicted. Most evidence comes from shielding which is very hypothetical and we don't know how the two halves of the Power interact when used on the opposite sex.
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Underestimating Forsaken strength - 11/12/2011 05:57:22 AM 1871 Views
Ah, my favourite topic makes a return... - 11/12/2011 07:45:29 AM 775 Views
Re: Ah, my favourite topic makes a return... - 11/12/2011 10:25:03 PM 791 Views
Yes, you are probably correct - 12/12/2011 06:26:07 AM 892 Views
Re: and some of the information given to us is flawed - 12/12/2011 07:38:59 PM 698 Views
The real question is - What percentage of her full strength did Nynaeve achieve by Book 4? - 12/12/2011 08:31:30 PM 729 Views
I find that unlikely - 12/12/2011 09:28:07 PM 696 Views
Easy question for you: Based on the evidence, what percentage of her strength was Nynaeve at in tSR? - 13/12/2011 07:09:56 AM 668 Views
Well.... - 13/12/2011 01:12:48 PM 731 Views
Well there we have it - 13/12/2011 01:36:45 PM 736 Views
Re: Well there we have it - 13/12/2011 02:06:14 PM 763 Views
Re: Well there we have it - 13/12/2011 02:12:10 PM 701 Views
Alivia may not even be stronger than Nynaeve... - 14/12/2011 03:14:06 AM 773 Views
That wouldn't surprise me actually *NM* - 14/12/2011 07:46:47 AM 403 Views
Where would you place Egwene though? - 14/12/2011 09:13:46 AM 682 Views
Re: Where would you place Egwene though? - 14/12/2011 12:53:49 PM 680 Views
Bonfire next to a candle indeed. Hehehe... - 14/12/2011 05:50:34 PM 822 Views
- 14/12/2011 06:56:40 PM 633 Views
The same "step" you refer to seperates Egwene from normal Aes Sedai according to RJ... - 14/12/2011 07:14:55 PM 663 Views
Yes! And...? - 15/12/2011 02:53:37 AM 672 Views
Yes I would agree with that - 14/12/2011 08:24:35 PM 823 Views
Alivia with an angreal > > > Cyndane - 14/12/2011 08:50:41 PM 601 Views
No - 14/12/2011 09:10:34 PM 687 Views
That makes no sense. - 14/12/2011 09:13:48 PM 753 Views
Correct. - 14/12/2011 09:43:53 PM 695 Views
Re: Correct. - 15/12/2011 05:54:37 AM 690 Views
So many instances of logical laziness in that post... - 14/12/2011 10:01:45 PM 1129 Views
Re: So many instances of logical laziness in that post... - 15/12/2011 06:16:01 AM 611 Views
Only slight diffence I have is regarding general AS strength - 30/12/2011 04:45:49 PM 706 Views
I think it was just Aes Sedai hyperbole - 15/12/2011 09:51:00 PM 557 Views
And entirely based off your shared assumption. - 14/12/2011 05:15:51 AM 758 Views
Actually that's a lot of logical assumption. *NM* - 13/12/2011 01:28:00 PM 339 Views
But... - 14/12/2011 03:06:15 AM 559 Views
And - 30/12/2011 05:07:13 PM 660 Views
Yes - 13/12/2011 04:16:40 PM 815 Views
Re: Yes - 13/12/2011 04:47:17 PM 718 Views
Nah. Beyond the realm of possibility. Sorry, - 13/12/2011 05:12:40 PM 778 Views
There are a number of comments from Q&As that shows that this is possible and more complex. - 13/12/2011 08:23:49 PM 743 Views
None of which I disagree with, but a far cry from women being weaker just due to believing it... - 13/12/2011 08:39:40 PM 652 Views
But that is my point: it wouldn't be merely force of will. - 13/12/2011 09:40:17 PM 639 Views
What Rand is doing... - 14/12/2011 03:43:08 AM 760 Views
That would make sense given Min's vision - 16/12/2011 04:37:56 PM 563 Views
Wait.. I DIDN'T write that! - 14/12/2011 03:02:04 AM 640 Views
Reply to your question of - "Why use Logain gateway comparison as evidence:" - 17/12/2011 03:08:19 PM 735 Views
You're basically saying "correlation equals causation"... - 18/12/2011 06:18:47 AM 680 Views
On gateways - 18/12/2011 07:17:09 AM 720 Views
Might assume that Elayne is stronger in the Power than Aviendha. - 19/12/2011 02:40:46 PM 916 Views
I suspect he knows that... - 19/12/2011 05:53:00 PM 633 Views
Nope...some maths problems in your post. - 19/12/2011 07:41:29 PM 683 Views
But 64 square feet is not Elayne's maximum... - 20/12/2011 02:46:50 AM 634 Views
But Shielding is also relative. - 27/12/2011 09:35:11 PM 1890 Views
Re: Underestimating Forsaken strength - 22/12/2011 05:24:53 PM 677 Views

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