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Re: +1 DomA Send a noteboard - 16/11/2011 05:29:40 PM

I don't really blame Sanderson. I think he probably would have done a better job had Harriet not rushed into the project. I don't even blame her for this, I understand why she felt as she felt. Ideally, I still believe she should have given Sanderson at least a year (or two, if he asked) to fully immerse himself in the series, and go to not one but a few consecutive rereads before he started working. The other mistake was to work with a (public) deadline, that sparked expectactions that Harriet then feared to disappoint. They should never have started publishing before Sanderson finished writing. They were not Jordan (and even he had problems with the larger picture, and that showed in the late series), and they deprive themselves of what writer and editor normally do, that is stepping back to look at the whole and polish it. They repeated the same mistake Jordan has made in the late series, when he built WH to climax with the Cleansing, without advancing the other storylines to that point first. Though very different in tone (and story), TOM has the very same kind of structural problems as COT, only even more important.



This paragraph here is, to me, what the crux of the issue became. I don't feel as if Sanderson was given enough time, and that he was not put in the position where demanding more time would have been accepted.


The sad thing is that this finally prevailed, for the third book. Had they made these calls earlier, at the beginning, we would still have gotten the final WOT book(s) in 2012, it's just that it would have been better books.

And it falls down to very human/personal issues, so I'm not inclined to be too harsh. I acknowledge the problems and bad calls, but there's no heat or anger toward Sanderson or the others for them.

Harriet felt she had to get to go forward as soon as possible, for the fans, for Jordan and for herself. That's understandable.


We're on the easy end of this, obviously. We're not the ones in mourning or with the pressure to make the decisions for a loved one's life work, or with the pressure not to disappoint the vocal part of the fanbase that was really eager to get the last book as fast as possible, and who wanted to know ASAP what would happen with the series (publishing wise, following Jordan's death).

Alas for the rest of the fanbase, those fans seemed to have determined Harriet's agenda.

With hindsight, the biggest mistake they made they made by going public too soon and in too many details, which occured because they put a massive amount of pressure on themselves to "keep the fans in the loop". I think they failed to see at the time that while no doubt many people would get genuinely impatient with them and be very vocal about it, a much larger part of the Jordan fanbase was rather very eager to get the books, but would have been perfectly understanding and supportive had they announced a hiatus before the new writer could start the real work, and no absolute deadline. None of the pressure came from the publisher, it's really all an issue they felt from the fanbase (though I guess Harriet also felt pressure not to monopolize Sanderson's time for too many years too, especially once they realized the project would demand much more time than foreseen).

Sanderson really didn't get enough time to analyse the material properly before the announcements were made. As soon as he signed or almost, Harriet made her plans public. He and Harriet realized fairly fast in the process this would take much longer to write, and that Sanderson could not stick to the "one book" plan of Jordan, but they had committed themselves to a 2009 deadline, and when out of their way to stick to it. Not only that, but all their plans and work methods were geared toward completing AMOL as one book, and were not so well suited to writing it as a trilogy. Sanderson is not a newbie writer, he would have worked quite differently from the start had he planned to write three books. It's the damned deadline that forced him to stop writing when he was barely beginning and make a book out of the material he had, which was just two POV clusters (Egwene and Rand) out of five, and only for the first two acts of the finale. He's not incompetent, he found a way to shape the material written into a novel, all the structual problems came from the material he had not worked on yet... Had he aimed for a split from the start, I have little doubt he would have followed a far more logical approach, to preserve Jordan's dramatic progression, sticking to the chronology far more. Sanderson didn't even have the choice to start with Mat and Perrin instead (which would have been more logical, as what happens to them don't have the global impact on the story, or the dramatic structure, the events happening to Rand, and to a lesser measure to Egwene, had)

Harriet rationalized that Jordan would not have been able to stick to one book either. She is probably right, publishing wise, but I'm convinced Jordan had he remained healthy, would have stuck to the plan to write this as one book, and make all this a non issue literary speaking, strictly a publishing problem that would be sorted later, when he was done. But of course, even if had he decided along the way to split it and make it two novels (He's long-winded, but he's far more economical than Sanderson in the number of episodes he chose to show "on screen" to develop a story. I think it's near impossible he would have written three books out of AMOL) his grasp of the story left to tell would have made him split it quite differently from the way Sanderson did, which was not determined by storytelling or dramatic structure, but strictly under the pressure to stick to a deadline, which they could meet only by making a novel out of the material he already had written (and a few additional chapters that are actually pretty bad/useless as Sanderson apporached them as "prequels" not to damage the beginning of the next book). It wasn't a literary decision, it was damage control.

It's really sad they put that additional pressure on themselves lik this. They made their job far more complex, while in fact most of the fanbase would have been supportive.

I'm sure Sanderson would have made a much better global job at maintaining the standards of Jordan had he been allowed to finish the whole thing before publishing anything. The books would have been shorter too. TGS and TOM both have tons of redundant scenes that would no doubt have been reworked if Sanderson could look at the whole before editing and tighening this up. For one thing, it would have been much easier to ensure all the details were in there. That's how Jordan did it, starting with the key events or key moments around which important aspects for characters, or important events revolved, then he fitted in all the rest, and fleshed everything out. Sanderson could not write like this. It's not his method, and it wasn't his material either. The only way to emulate that was the approach he chose, to rough draft each cluster, smooth out their individual problems, then step back and polish the whole as one global novel and fill all the gaps. He was never supposed to be forced to stop after two clusters and polish them up for publication, with only a very rough outline of what else what happening, and no concrete vision of the problems he would face later with those storylines.
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A rebuke to Cannolli's Sanderson bashing (and some counter bashing) - 16/11/2011 04:32:25 AM 2058 Views
"You do not read or watch "The Road" looking for a good laugh." - 16/11/2011 03:02:31 PM 872 Views
Fantasy is so much more than you think it is - 16/11/2011 03:19:53 PM 961 Views
Re: Fantasy is so much more than you think it is - 18/11/2011 02:09:30 AM 933 Views
Re: A rebuke to Cannolli's Sanderson bashing (and some counter bashing) - 16/11/2011 03:23:45 PM 1224 Views
+1 - 16/11/2011 03:37:26 PM 790 Views
Re: +1 - 16/11/2011 05:29:40 PM 964 Views
Are there really people who like Sanderson's WoT better than Jordan's? - 17/11/2011 03:44:53 AM 713 Views
It depends... - 17/11/2011 05:40:24 PM 803 Views
Re: It depends... - 17/11/2011 07:31:38 PM 889 Views
Uh... I like them more than some of his books? - 06/12/2011 09:51:59 PM 719 Views
+1 more - 17/11/2011 05:47:42 AM 955 Views
Re: +1 more - 17/11/2011 06:14:45 AM 818 Views
What do you mean by "abuses dialogue to carry scenes?" - 17/11/2011 03:38:03 PM 721 Views
Re: What do you mean by "abuses dialogue to carry scenes?" - 17/11/2011 04:34:30 PM 837 Views
A considered and mature response. Or some crude name-calling - read and find out which! - 17/11/2011 05:37:38 AM 940 Views
ha ha ha love your final metaphor *NM* - 17/11/2011 03:54:58 PM 380 Views
So do I !!! - 17/11/2011 06:15:24 PM 1059 Views
Re: A considered and mature response. Or some crude name-calling - read and find out which! - 18/11/2011 02:40:04 AM 765 Views
Good point. Very well reasoned and articulate. - 18/11/2011 03:01:29 AM 843 Views
Re: A considered and mature response. Or some crude name-calling - read and find out which! - 18/11/2011 02:44:15 AM 714 Views
This is the stupidest thing I have ever read in my life. That B-Sand did not write. - 18/11/2011 03:02:45 AM 885 Views
*confused* - 18/11/2011 03:38:34 AM 816 Views
Yes, absolutely not. *NM* - 18/11/2011 06:18:32 PM 355 Views
Sorry for the double post *NM* - 18/11/2011 05:04:35 AM 960 Views
No way tGS and ToM are the worst in the series. Not the best, but not the worst. - 02/12/2011 06:20:43 PM 1185 Views

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