Re: No, just the most heinous criminals imaginable
fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 22/09/2009 10:49:58 PM
Which means that the mind of the criminal in that situation is superior.
But that is the case here. Can you give me proof that Rand has consistently outsmarted the Forsaken? He was stumped by Asmodean, but got back by screwing up Lanfear's plans. That's the only case where Rand outsmarted the Forsaken, as far as I can see.
According to who? You? A crime kingpin has to actually be pretty clever to avoid jail over a long period of time. It's all the idiots who get caught.
But crime kingpins are not immune to idiocies, and at a general level, don't have to contend with ta'veren.
Take ta'veren out of the eqation, and then tell me that the Forsaken plans are idiotic. They are not.
The relative concept is what's important, not the true value. In the Forsaken's case, Rand is not a genius. It seems that the best from the AOL were rather mediocre indeed if a farmer can outsmart them.
But how many times has he actually outsmarted them? Rhidean is the only one I can think of.
The Cleansing, maybe, but he had a great deal of help there.
Even the Forsaken don't care about these things despite the fact that they are atrocities. They don't speak about how profound the chaos is in Ilian or Seanchan. All they care about is Rand - and they've caused him minimal inconvenience. Of all the Forsaken, Asmodean has done the most damage by firing up Couladin as a potential Car'acarn, which seriously diverted Rand for a prolonged period. Elayne basically walked into an undamaged Andor despite the 'destruction' of Rahvin - she'll get the place cleaned up in a few months. The same can be said of Ilian and Tear despite the two male Forsaken's best efforts. Semirhage caused true chaos and plunged Seanchan into anarchy - but that actually helped the Dragon Reborn more than anything else.
The Forsaken don't care? Graendal is boasting of the chaos she created in Shara and Arad Doman. Mesaana is damn proud of the infighting in the Tower. Sammael was quite exuberant at the chaos he caused by sending the Shaido forth, etc. By no means do they not care about the chaos and loss they have created.
And what if they don't think its a great achievement? Its the effect on the light that matters, not what they think.
And as for any effect on Rand... you forget... it was the Forsaken who removed Siuan (a pro-Rand Amyrlin) and out Elaida in her place. It was Mesaana who engineered Rand's capture and the resultant distrust he has of Aes Sedai. Halima and Mesaana have been keeping the Rebellion from ending and Ishamael was the architect of the whole Seanchan problem, which is currently the greatest inconvenience Rand has.
Though we don't know who, it was a Fosaken who created the problem of Masema, and Taim is their work as well.
They've caused a load of problems for Rand.
If Hitler's only goal was to kill Churchill, my point would be entirely appropriate. The Forsaken are not there to perform atrocities, they are there to defeat the Light, which means that they only have to kill Rand al'Thor and they've won. Not only can they not kill him, they can't even kill his friends. Not even one.
How certain are you that killing Rand will cement the Shadow's victory? Because people who've been at it for a long time are not so certain.
More importantly, given that he is ta'veren, it is very possible that the Shadow's strategy is the best. Use him for as long as possible to generate chaos, and when that chaos has sufficiently damaged the Wheel's ability to cover for Rand's absence, strike at him.
In which case, they're right on course for ultimate success.
TGS Prologue - your thoughts (part 2) *spoilers*
16/09/2009 04:55:21 AM
- 3266 Views
Where can i find it at? Can someone give me a link? *NM*
18/09/2009 02:21:10 AM
- 214 Views
mobipocket.com
18/09/2009 02:53:13 AM
- 665 Views
Thanks, It was interesting especially the last part of the prologue *NM*
20/09/2009 02:42:28 AM
- 265 Views
A pointless survey - take your guess at who wrote what of the Prologue
18/09/2009 01:30:24 PM
- 566 Views
Re: A pointless survey - take your guess at who wrote what of the Prologue
18/09/2009 07:08:43 PM
- 440 Views
The prologue gives us strong evidence that Graendal is weaker than Demi or Semi
18/09/2009 03:55:58 PM
- 643 Views
I'm a little surprised nobody is discussing this. I thought this would get more attention. *NM*
20/09/2009 09:17:57 PM
- 318 Views
Is it me or do the Forsaken seem more viscious?
18/09/2009 04:17:22 PM
- 632 Views
yep, leaner and meaner...except for mesaana-she's still twitchy after shadar haran *NM*
18/09/2009 05:09:29 PM
- 316 Views
Trollocs!
18/09/2009 05:35:12 PM
- 638 Views
Why not a gray man then?
18/09/2009 07:52:55 PM
- 652 Views
Because they wanted to destroy as much of the force as possible
19/09/2009 12:07:57 AM
- 522 Views
But there's no plausible deniability
19/09/2009 12:50:42 AM
- 569 Views
But even several grey men or slayer aren't going to get the deed done
19/09/2009 02:28:36 AM
- 593 Views
Who is Graendal going to wack?
18/09/2009 06:00:12 PM
- 599 Views
I think it could be Tam. *NM*
18/09/2009 06:05:12 PM
- 282 Views
Great idea.
18/09/2009 07:12:40 PM
- 556 Views
Its about time for Perrin to reunite with Rand he's got Faile back
18/09/2009 08:15:47 PM
- 536 Views
Re: Its about time for Perrin to reunite with Rand he's got Faile back
18/09/2009 10:41:12 PM
- 549 Views
Mesaana's statement gives us a big clue about Demandred's and Moridin's whereabouts
18/09/2009 09:11:49 PM
- 693 Views
My favorite quote: "Who will win? The child or the fool?" - Graendal
18/09/2009 09:48:55 PM
- 652 Views
but she didn't say 'the fool or the fool'
19/09/2009 02:07:20 PM
- 557 Views
Yes, because Cannoli has long valued the opinions of the Forsaken...
20/09/2009 06:10:58 AM
- 617 Views
Forsaken Chapter
18/09/2009 10:30:10 PM
- 617 Views
I agree that Graendal will die in this book.... her and A'rangar *NM*
19/09/2009 08:14:07 AM
- 259 Views
Various comments
19/09/2009 05:38:21 PM
- 637 Views
The Dying Man
19/09/2009 06:48:09 PM
- 579 Views
After a reread I think I know who sent the Trollocs
19/09/2009 08:28:08 PM
- 545 Views
Another reason why Moridin is not Taim
19/09/2009 08:41:03 PM
- 527 Views
This isn't evidence.
19/09/2009 08:51:54 PM
- 640 Views
It isn't evidence, but it is another perspective to add to the table
19/09/2009 09:11:15 PM
- 438 Views
Why is Moridin and not Demandred marshalling the Dark Forces in the Blight?
19/09/2009 10:35:06 PM
- 523 Views
I think there are many issues here
19/09/2009 10:51:13 PM
- 633 Views
The Malign Influence of the Forsaken
19/09/2009 11:08:00 PM
- 545 Views
I have doubts about that degree of conversion
19/09/2009 11:17:44 PM
- 481 Views
Re: Why is Moridin and not Demandred marshalling the Dark Forces in the Blight?
20/09/2009 09:44:06 AM
- 617 Views
Did Demandred make the connection between Moridin's phantom hand-pain and Semirhage's firebolt?
20/09/2009 12:11:32 PM
- 630 Views
I don't think that Demandred will be a key player at the end with Rand
20/09/2009 01:00:58 PM
- 588 Views
Some sweeping statements there...
20/09/2009 01:21:46 PM
- 579 Views
Not at all
20/09/2009 03:34:59 PM
- 602 Views
A lot of twisting my words there, and direct contradictions of your own points...
20/09/2009 04:19:57 PM
- 605 Views
Not really
20/09/2009 05:12:42 PM
- 673 Views
I couldn't have summarized it better myself...
20/09/2009 05:25:56 PM
- 497 Views
But...
20/09/2009 06:01:33 PM
- 596 Views
Possible...
20/09/2009 06:08:21 PM
- 509 Views
So that's your argument now?
20/09/2009 07:35:52 PM
- 429 Views
I think you took that the wrong way...
20/09/2009 08:53:28 PM
- 515 Views
Wow, then I think you're in for a surprise
20/09/2009 08:38:37 PM
- 492 Views
Just a general comment...
20/09/2009 09:13:51 PM
- 646 Views
Re: Just a general comment...
20/09/2009 09:59:51 PM
- 1457 Views
I reject the cult of the "cool" villain.
20/09/2009 11:24:40 PM
- 532 Views
I don't really agree
21/09/2009 05:02:10 AM
- 482 Views
But these aren't criminals...
21/09/2009 05:47:40 AM
- 412 Views
No, just the most heinous criminals imaginable
21/09/2009 12:43:19 PM
- 621 Views
Re: No, just the most heinous criminals imaginable
22/09/2009 10:49:58 PM
- 544 Views